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  • Plumbing in a Machine?

    I would like to know what is required to plumb in say, a rotary pump domestic machine situated beside a kitchen sink. What fittings, pipes, hoses as well as filter, something to regulate the mains pressure, some sort of cut off valve to act like a fuse to prevent a flood if something come adrift, how much would this sort of stuff cost, labour would be DIY of course.

  • #2
    Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

    a stop cock (tap), t-piece, 350kpa pressure limiting valve, water filter, water softener (very important), connector pieces (compression fittings) and copper or flexible cable. Probably all half-inch and adapters for parts you dont have.

    you will probably also want to do the reverse direction (waste) and use a dishwasher flexible hose and put it into the s-bend of the sink.

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    • #3
      Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

      most machine fittings are 3/8". So if you have 1/2" from your tap you will need a 1/2" to 3/8" connection. I just bought one of these for less than $5 yesterday.

      So what you need is 3 steel braided hoses.

      Tap -> 350 kPa pressure limiting valve -> (may need to put in a 1/2" to 3/8" connection here) 3/8" hose -> water filter -> 3/8" hose -> rotary pump -> 3/8" hose to machine unless the rotary pump is integrated in to the machine.

      Hoses are like $5 each
      1/2" to 3/8" male thread connection less than $5
      350 kPa pressure limiter $80
      Water filter housing and filter - not sure of the price


      Good luck.

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      • #4
        Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

        $90 filter, $80 pressure reducer, $10 tap, hoses $20+ ea, copper $10+ per metre, plus lots of fittings. Id budget $250 to $350 if you have to buy everything. if you havthe choice, I would always plumb in, it is soooo much better.

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        • #5
          Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

          OK
          Thanks everyone theres enough info here to get me going, if, I need to go that way in the future.

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          • #6
            Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

            The water softener is part of the filter (or can be), it is only needed in areas with hard water. Unnecessary softening of the water will detract from the taste of the espresso. An isolation/shut-off valve wont prevent a flood. Think of it like a tap that is simply left on, it is required in case of machine malfunction/maintenance, and to change filters

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            • #7
              Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

              Originally posted by 487D6C7D5E180 link=1231550225/5#5 date=1231667241
              An isolation/shut-off valve wont prevent a flood. Think of it like a tap that is simply left on, it is required in case of machine malfunction/maintenance, and to change filters
              Just for your info, you can buy a seperate valve that will prevent flooding in the event of a broken or split hose though. I have one fitted to my dishwasher just after the isolation valve.

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              • #8
                Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

                craig, what are these valves? how do they work?

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                • #9
                  Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

                  The valve that I personally have is an integral part of the dishwasher hose ( its a Bosch dishwasher), but there is a fitting available from Plumbing stores called Floodgaurd. It is sold under the RMC brand here in Aust.

                  You can see what the valve looks like here in this RMC price list. GO to page 17.

                  http://www.relianceworldwide.com.au/files/BOOKS/06BOOK1.pdf

                  Here is a link to what I believe is probably the same fitting, but marketed under a different name. I have supplied this because it tells you a bit more about how it works, maintenance required,etc.

                  http://www.magriffith.com.au/flood/flood_stop.pdf

                  I should mention that I dont reckon they are 100% fool proof as they shut off when large volumes of water are flowing through. If you were to get a small split in a braided hose, it may leak for quite a while before the leak progresses ( as the hole gets bigger)  to the point where the hole is big enough to allow the volume of flow  through that would trigger the valve to close.

                  Check out your local plumbing hardware for more info  (Tradelink or Reece may not keep them but should be able to get you one and should be able to get more info on them). They all deal with reliance ( RMC) and could have accounts with M.A. Griffith, although they arent as well known as RMC.

                  From memory, Dorf used to also put out a valve that did a similar thing  but that was years ago. I havent seen one for a decade and cant remember what it was called. It looked different to this but the principle behind it is probably the same.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

                    Craig, yes thats correct but that is not a "standard" instal. Theres another system available that uses a solenoid and water sensor to detect even the smallest amount of water. Incidentally, doesnt your Bosch dishwasher have a floodsafe system built in? Many have this and will switch off the water if it detects flooding. Ive never put it to the test mind you   It would also probably rely on the leak being after the machines solenoid which wont help a burst supply hose.

                    The 3/8" - 1/2" hoses I dont believe are typically stocked by plumbing suppliers, certainly not up here in Sydney from what I found. Youll probably have to order from a speciality espresso parts supplier. I recently bought one from a supplier that wasnt "Coffee Parts" and was extremely disappointed in the quality of the hose they supplied. 1/2" hoses are readily available but its possible you may have difficulty in squeezing in the adaptor below the machine. Personally I try to minimise the number of adaptors as theyre just another possible leak point and order the appropriate parts.

                    Pete

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                    • #11
                      Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

                      Originally posted by 4075647556100 link=1231550225/9#9 date=1232054411
                      Craig, yes thats correct but that is not a "standard" instal.
                      If by standard, you mean you havent seen one used on a coffee machine before, I cant comment. Im not in the coffee industry, just a keen enthusiast with 3-4K worth of coffee gear sitting on his kitchen bench and a background in the plumbing industry. Im looking at it from that side of things, so not sure what specialty items have been invented for the coffee industry. Chances are, they probably wont work any better than what I have mentioned though, but are likely to be 3X the price if they are an electronic device like that fitted to european dishwahing machines ( like my Bosch).

                      Originally posted by 4075647556100 link=1231550225/9#9 date=1232054411
                      Theres another system available that uses a solenoid and water sensor to detect even the smallest amount of water.
                      Is there? Do you have any more information available? Who makes them? Where you can purchaes them? Links to their website? Is this whizzbang system $50 or $500?

                      I mentioned the product that I did because it is a relatively cheap, simple mechanical device that  I believe is readily available. I have also provided links,  places to purchase and even a rough estimate of price if you look at the first link.  Can you provide the same for this superior product of which you speak?

                      Originally posted by 4075647556100 link=1231550225/9#9 date=1232054411
                      Incidentally, doesnt your Bosch dishwasher have a floodsafe system built in? Many have this and will switch off the water if it detects flooding.
                      Not quite getting the point you are trying to make, but its definately a different system to the one I was talking about above. The system on my dishwasher is electronically controlled ( therefore it is an integral part of the machine as I had already mentioned) rather than purely a mechanical device ( like the one I mentioned in my last post which closes when a certain flow rate is reached) but the shut off solenoid is right at the end of the hose ( not at a solenoid in the machine) where it attaches to the isolation point, protecting you in the event of a leaking hose. To retro fit the type of system that is fitted to my dishwasher would be impossible on a coffee machine as you need the electronic component to control the system. Both have there pluses and minuses and I would not trust either 100%.

                      Originally posted by 4075647556100 link=1231550225/9#9 date=1232054411
                      The 3/8" - 1/2" hoses I dont believe are typically stocked by plumbing suppliers, certainly not up here in Sydney from what I found.
                      Hoses are widely used in the plumbing industry instead of copper. Are you saying you cant buy one that goes from 1/2 to 3/8? Thats not suprising as 1/2 is the standard size used for water in Aus. and its very easy to turn one end into 3/8 with a single fitting. You can buy hoses of various lengths up to 1500mm over the counter at most plumbing stores with or without an elbow on one end (for tight spots) but these will all be in 1/2. Interestingly the actual inside diam of the hose is 10mm ( 3/8). It is quite easy to adapt one end to 3/8 with a bush or a reducing nipple depending on what thread you need  ( male or female) to screw into the machine . As for the room problem in and under an Espresso machine, it would vary from machine to machine, but I would be inclined to use a little bit of 3/8 annealed copper until you got the pipework just out of the machine, then adapt it to 1/2 and then just use en easyhooker ( the tradename for those braided hoses widely available from plumbing stores) from there.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

                        PeteF.

                        Just re-read my last post and it kinda sounded confrontational.

                        Not meant to be how it came across mate. Apologies if taken this way.

                        The point I want to make is, if you use a system that uses a solenoid set up on a coffee machine, what tells the solenoid to turn on/off without the electronic capabilty required?

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                        • #13
                          Re: Plumbing in a Machine?

                          Originally posted by 4352414947200 link=1231550225/11#11 date=1232061030
                          PeteF.

                          Just re-read my last post and it kinda sounded confrontational.

                          Not meant to be how it came across mate. Apologies if taken this way.

                          The point I want to make is, if you use a system that uses a solenoid set up on a coffee machine, what tells the solenoid to turn on/off without the electronic capabilty required?  
                          No worries. This is one system available http://www.watershop.com.au/products/extras/leak/index.html Again, it isnt something Ive seen as typically used in installing an espresso machine but that doesnt mean that just because people dont typically install them theyre a "bad" idea.

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