Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Differences in Prosumer machines?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Differences in Prosumer machines?

    Hi all.

    Let me appologise upfront if this topic has been broached before, but..... Is there a discernable difference in output of the main prosumer machines (ECMs, Bezzeras, Expobars, Diadema etc) ie: in what ends up in the cup. What I am trying to ask is; if all other things being equal (same (quality) grinder, beans etc), is there a noticeable difference in the quality of the shot between these machines? Or, is it for someone who is going to spend $$$, a case of which machine is more aesthetically pleasing? Does one machine do the job better than the others  or is it like asking how long is a piece of string?

    It just seems that there is so much choice... :-/

  • #2
    Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

    Hi Flo,

    There are differences- in build quality, boiler size and pressure, pump pressure set by the factory, origin of manufacture and other areas such as drip tray size, ease of service, steam wand anatomy and how well they do the job and a whole heap of other things.

    I suggest that you have a chat to someone who can outline the differences in as unbiased a fashion as possible and then choose the set of compromises.

    I hope that makes things as clear as mud! They are not all created equal!

    Chris

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

      Its always the way isnt it? Is there difference in the quality of the shots though?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

        Flo,

        Yep, it is a bit like saying how long is a piece of string...

        Each machine has its strengths and weaknesses..... the more you pay the less the weaknesses (as a general rule)....

        The trouble is what is "essential" to one user is of no consequence to another. That being the case, a cheaper machine might meet your needs perfectly...

        You really need to work out what you want, in order of importance.... then go along to a site sponsor with your "must have, need, would be nice, doesnt matter" list and discuss with him/her what would best meet your need.

        If cost is an issue, or even if it isnt in some cases- be prepared to be somewhat flexible with your requirements.... to use the car analogy - wed all love to own a Rolls Royce...... but do we need it?..... and if we like going off road it would even be a poor choice!...... and there are probably a few people that wouldnt want one at all (regardless of price) .

        Good luck!

        PS- and in relation to "Is there difference in the quality of the shots though?" the answer is yes and no..... depends on how good your taste buds are - but more importantly how good your grinder is - to get the best from any of these machines you need a really, really good grinder!! (and of course, quality FRESH beans).

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

          Originally posted by JavaB link=1164969067/0#3 date=1164972365
          PS- and in relation to "Is there difference in the quality of the shots though?" the answer is yes and no..... depends on how good your taste buds are - but more importantly how good your grinder is - to get the best from any of these machines you need a really, really good grinder!! (and of course, quality FRESH beans).
          Thats what I was trying to get at in my first post. If say you had a number of machines lined up next to each other of similar pricepoints and characteristics (lets say the 2k -3k range)  and you used the same grinder (lets say a Mini for the purposes of the discussion)  and the same beans, would the shots be of equal quality? I know that we dont live in an ideal world and that there will be variations, however slight, with beans and technique etc. Does it come down to the old adage "All machines are created equal; its just some are more equal than others"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

            Originally posted by Flo link=1164969067/0#4 date=1164973839
            If say you had a number of machines lined up next to each other of similar pricepoints and characteristics (lets say the 2k -3k range) and you used the same grinder (lets say a Mini for the purposes of the discussion) and the same beans, would the shots be of equal quality? I know that we dont live in an ideal world and that there will be variations, however slight, with beans and technique etc. Does it come down to the old adage "All machines are created equal; its just some are more equal than others"
            Now if they had been all correctly "tuned" so that pressure was exactly the same, the group temp was exactly the same etc..... and they were given the correct technique for that machine - a cooling flush of the correct length - in some cases no flush at all..... it would probably be hard to tell them apart - they would all produce an excellent espresso with almost undetectable flavour variations...

            BUT

            not all machines are tuned correctly, some require more effort to get that "god shot" than others, some might make a great first shot - but the second is not so good (different design means different thermal recovery etc)..... again the difference would be very small - to many undetectable in most cases.

            That is why you need to buy the machine from someone who knows them well and will tune them up prior to shipment - and explain the best way to use that particular type of machine.

            The differences in milk texturing will be greater from machine to machine - recovery (size of boiler and wattage of the heater) becomes an issue.... the first jug of milk might be fine but you have to wait for the second... or the boiler temp has dropped and you need to wait for it to recover before you extract the next shot etc...

            Again a good dealer can point out these differences - and these may or may not be important to you and the way you like to make coffee.

            I love my commercial machine - lots of steam and I can make coffees all day - no problem. It is big, expensive to run but it suits my needs - others wouldnt even give owning one of these a thought (and I can understand that)...

            It really comes down to how you want to use the machine, and how much "fiddling" you are prepared to do - and - most importantly - how exacting you are with the taste of the espresso which the machine makes.

            The above probably hasnt helped much, hope it has made some sense

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

              Just interested Flo in why the question is being asked? Maybe look at the thread:
              What type of machine is needed?
              Are you frustrated with the Gaggia? If so a visit to one of the sponsors near you is probably the best bet because we all have our biases (probably more so than preferences) and as 2mcm and JavaB both hinted things are not equal in design or set up. Realistically most of us have gear we could still grow with- I think the biggest failing of our gear is us! Id say the biggest factor is what you do with the gear you get. Ive had seriously good espresso and milk drinks on my mother in laws bottom of the line gaggia used with my lovely cunill grinder. Very close to what I can get on the others but not as quick and easy or consistent.
              All the best
              Brett

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Differences in Prosumer machines?

                Quote from JavaB:

                "........That is why you need to buy the machine from someone who knows them well and will tune them up prior to shipment - and explain the best way to use that particular type of machine....."

                JavaB mate, you are looking for a job in my humble establishment?????


                Flo, this is the crux of the matter. The dealer is just as important if not more so than the brand / type of machine......its what puts the "signature" on the machine you buy.

                If we can help, we can be found in the *signature* at the bottom of this post.

                Regardz,
                FC.

                Comment

                Working...
                X