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  • #16
    Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

    I have a five stage undersink filter and I use water from it to fill the Bezerra BZ99 water container, I found however the water is so pure that there are no ions or sediment or whatever you call it in the water, and the machine turns itself off because it trips the low water failsafe switch. I only found this out by trail and error and a mention of it in another well known coffee site. The BZ99 has 2 screws connected to the electronics in the water tank and if the water gets below those screw heads it shuts of, I now use filtered water and tap water half and half to avoid this happening, too pure water can trip the low water failsafe in some machines.

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    • #17
      Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

      Originally posted by 0F2E252522384B0 link=1245022812/14#14 date=1252446484
      Hi Mal

      Just wondering if you have kept the resin cartridge that comes with the Diadema connected, or youve found it superfluous due to your kit from Bombora?

      Cheers!
      Dennis, I just installed a water filter from Bombora under my sink after my twin drinking water filter system, they informed me that I can now remove my in tank resin cartridge.

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      • #18
        Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

        Originally posted by 1A3B3030372D5E0 link=1245022812/14#14 date=1252446484
        Hi Mal

        Just wondering if you have kept the resin cartridge that comes with the Diadema connected, or youve found it superfluous due to your kit from Bombora?

        Cheers!
        Actually,

        I asked Attilio about this Den and he suggested that I could leave it as is, in service purely as a particle filter or substitute it for a simple particle filter. At this stage, Ive just left it in situ. The only reason a particle filter may still be needed is to protect against small foreign particles that might fall into the water tank while Im filling it. Probably not a huge risk of that happening but such a small measure to take as prevention seems a reasonable precaution to me...

        Mal.

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        • #19
          Re: Water filtration and espresso machines


          Thanks for that Mal.

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          • #20
            Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

            Originally posted by 426F6B676A060 link=1245022812/13#13 date=1252417751
            Ive been using a Bombora Scale Inhibitor system for some time now and am very happy with it. Initially, I tried a resin exchange system and when compared with the inhibitor system, I cant really pick any effect from either, on the palate.

            Like you though, I opted for the system which was easiest for me to deal with in my circumstances, and chose against the resin exchange. Given that neither system seems to add or subtract anything from the coffee flavour profile (that my son and I could detect), swapping out a cartridge every 12 months or so is a very convenient option for me.

            Mal.
            All fair enough and its good to hear that there is no discernable difference but I will make the comment that if your water is fairly low in hardness you should be changing your IX resin infrequently as well
            Ill stick with IX because of the above reasons plus I hate adding chemicals to stuff I eat/drink - rather ironic given that I make my living from chemistry

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            • #21
              Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

              Originally posted by 59485D5B461C290 link=1245022812/15#15 date=1252477911
              I have a five stage undersink filter and I use water from it to fill the Bezerra BZ99 water container, I found however the water is so pure that there are no ions or sediment or whatever you call it in the water, and the machine turns itself off because it trips the low water failsafe switch. I only found this out by trail and error and a mention of it in another well known coffee site. The BZ99 has 2 screws connected to the electronics in the water tank and if the water gets below those screw heads it shuts of, I now use filtered water and tap water half and half to avoid this happening, too pure water can trip the low water failsafe in some machines.
              We use these sensors at work, they work by detecting electrical current passing b/w the screws. When there is no current it assumes that the water has fallen below the level of the screws. Unfortunately, as you have found, ultra pure water is not a conductor and give a false low level reading.
              Your  IX system is obviously a "de-ionising/de-mineralising" system which is a significant step up from a "softening" system both in ion removal effectiveness and cost.
              Im not trying to be nasty here, hopefully Im being helpful, but adding tap water is undoing all the good work that the system has just done -calcium and magnesium are being added back into the system so scale can still form. There are two better options that I can offer
              1) Add a pinch of table salt to each tank. It only has to be a few grains, preferable not the iodised variety.
              2) Downgrade to a "softening" system that specifically targets calcium, magnesium and iron but leaves the rest (mainly sodium and potassium) in the water. Your system will have the softening cartidges plus a few extra. It should be as simple as re-pluimbing to exclude the un-needed cartridges. Of course this is no good   if you need the de-ionised water for other purposes

              ps Ive tried to make this a simple explanation and left out a lot of technical detail and inside chemistry knowledge so I hope this makes sense

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              • #22
                Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                Thank you Brewman for the advice. Ill be taking it up.

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                • #23
                  Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                  Originally posted by 526275677D717E100 link=1245022812/19#19 date=1252538240
                  but I will make the comment that if your water is fairly low in hardness you should be changing your IX resin infrequently as well
                  My choice to go this way, was mainly related to my experiencing a significant deficit of both strength and dexterity after suffering a series of strokes a few years back. As a result, I ended up with resin particles all over the kitchen counter and floor after trying to carry out some simple maintenance. With the Bombora system being a simple bayonet attachment for the filter cartridge, it is simplicity itself for me to manage; no other reason really.

                  Appreciate what you say about the consumption of added chemicals but if you could see the vast number of poisons I have to consume, otherwise described as medication, a micro-dose of a basically benign substance is neither here nor there for me.....

                  All the best,
                  Mal.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                    Hi Brewman and Patro5,

                    Well put Brewman, Im a coffee newbie with some chemistry, but with no claim to competence.
                    I would suggest the use of particle filters plus a cation exchange column/cartridge. If the cation exchange resin was prepared and regenerated into the sodium/potassium form, the resultant filtered IX water produced should function ideally in the Bezzara boiler: no Ca, Mg, Fe scale similar conductivity and TDS values to original untreated water with normal water level switching in the Bezzara.

                    If the Full water purification system was also for the production of water for other purposes, then a T adaptor could be used in the line (post particle filters) to create a Bezzera only line which would include the sodium/potassium IX resin column/cartridge.

                    Kind Regards
                    Lindsay

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                    • #25
                      Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                      Im currently experimenting/trialling a new system from Bombora which seems to be working well. Bernard was very helpful, and if you ask nicely Im sure he would oblige again.

                      It is a new combo of an ion exchange softener and a 1 micron carbon filter, so uses only two cartridges. It installed easily under the sink, included a very nice tap for the top of the sink, and provides me with nice tasting water for drinking, cooking and COFFEE!

                      According to my aquarium water test kit the general hardness went from 161 ppm to 35.

                      Greg

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                      • #26
                        Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                        Hi everyone,

                        Im waiting on my new Giotto to arrive. I found this thread while looking through the forum.

                        I had no idea water could be so technical

                        I have read that the brita water filter systems dont work. We have an Awesome Water filter wondered if it is the same and how it would go on my Giotto. Has anyone used these systems for their machines?

                        Also is above eliminating scale or minimising the scale?

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                        • #27
                          Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                          Cant seem to find any info on the net about how "awsome" the awesome filter is I would suggest that it doesnt affect the scale problem too much. Generally all products do is to minimise scale not eliminating the problem completely.

                          If you think this is technical you should do a search on water and espresso machines, many days and nights of reading.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                            I would be contacting Bombora, a site sponsor

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                            • #29
                              Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                              Originally posted by 26130406360E130C000D05610 link=1245022812/6#6 date=1245926810
                              If you dont have access to rainwater, then AFAIK most of Australias reticulated water will benefit from softening as well as a good carbon filter.

                              I mix rainwater:Adelaide water at approx. 3:1 for the HX and feed the boiler when I can with pure rainwater. Both are filtered through a .5 micron carbon filter.

                              Using this formula my La San Marco lasted 25 years without a de-scale, and when the group died wore out, the boiler was almost like new.

                              Greg
                              Just came across this....very reassuring as Ive been using 100% rainwater in my machine since new. I boil it first and then pass it through a Brita jug after it has cooled to remove any sediment and organic material.


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                              • #30
                                Re: Water filtration and espresso machines

                                Id try adding some proportion of tap water to get the mineral content up into the "good tasting for coffee" range. If the water is too soft the coffee can taste a bit flat. Try 3 rain to one tap and see how you go. This should still be below scaling level mineralisation.

                                Greg

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