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PID Temp Control for less than $50

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  • PID Temp Control for less than $50

    Hey Guys,

    A while back I ordered the parts needed for a PID controller on the temperature for my Breville Cafe Roma.
    This may intrest people as I know that some people are paying hundreds of dollars for these things, but with a little electronics Knowledge, I have set this up for a fraction of the price.
    Ebay PID controller: $15
    Ebay Thermocouple: $2
    Ebay Solid State Relay: $5
    Parts I aready have: Misc wire/cable, tape, wood for an enclosure, tools etc. (yeah im a bit of a hoarder

    Now the PID i recieved had a 3A internal relay, I had to unsolder this and solder some wires so I could hook it up to my SSR, so some electronics knowledge is required for the parts I used.

    The last of the parts only arrived last night, so I have only done basic bench tests. I still have to make the enclosure and wire it up neatly.
    The temperature before the PID was ranging from mid 80s to about 110 degrees max, which pretty much sucks.
    From initial testing, this this is just magical I set it to 96 degrees, it heated to 80 something, switched the element off, slowly got to 96 and then it just blips the element occasionally to keep it at the temp.

    I am very impressed with this so far, and provided these cheap parts dont break on me, its a bargain!
    I will post more once I have set it up properly!

  • #2
    Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

    Sounds like a great little DIY project for the tinkerers (suitably qualified of course).

    Simplistically, Does PID basically get its input from its own temp sensor and switch the wires that connect to the original temp sensor? Or is it way more complicated than this?

    Cheers

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

      Hi artman,
      Yeah, thats exactly how it works
      I will post pictures when I am done!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

        Nice, look forward to it. Would be a great little project to add to my list of never ending projects!!

        Does the temp sensor simply sit on the outside of the boiler, or is it inserted into the boiler to measure the actual water temp? I guess it depends on how quickly the brass boiler changes temp in relation to the water inside it.

        Cheers

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

          Sensor location is tricky. My machine is actaully a thermoblock machine, Currently I have the sensor pushed against the outside of the thermoblock with some computer heatsink paste inbetween, very close to the location of the original thermostats.
          It does seem to take a long time for the heat to actaully reach the thermostat, but the PID should help with that.
          I guess a thermoblock machine is never going to be great, but Im hoping it will be a LOT better than what it was before.
          I would imagine that ideally if you had a boiler machine youd want to be measuring the water temp in the boiler, but I personally would be too afraid that I wouldnt be able to seal it well enough after drilling into it. I think most people just attatch the sensor to the outside though.

          I will be measuring the water temperature as it comes out of the machine too, as I suspect that I will need to set a higher temperature on the PID than 96 to produce 96 degree water.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

            Originally posted by 615F5A5D5F360 link=1334794026/0#0 date=1334794026
            Now the PID i recieved had a 3A internal relay, I had to unsolder this and solder some wires so I could hook it up to my SSR, so some electronics knowledge is required for the parts I used.
            Small beer, but worth noting - if the PID was set up to switch a relay, itll be configured for long on and off times. Relatively speaking anyway - so you probably wont see much shorter times than 2 seconds. Depending on the controller you should be able to mess about with the parameter block to re-config this to be SSR compatible - down to single cycle. Dont go lower though - the usual SSR suspects have zero cross detect, so youll end up with strangely dysfunctional heating if you get too crazy about it.

            Good buying, I have to say.

            /Kevin

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

              the type i got for about the same price included the SSR output ( N2006P ) so no need to make any internal mods. Also came configured to work the SSR output nicely on my behmor. This model actually also includes a 3A output as well as the SSR - are you sure your model is relay output only?

              Originally posted by 08363334365F0 link=1334794026/0#0 date=1334794026
              Now the PID i recieved had a 3A internal relay, I had to unsolder this and solder some wires so I could hook it up to my SSR, so some electronics knowledge is required for the parts I used.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                Ah ok, I didnt know that, thanks Kevin, ill have a play and see what i can work out.

                brettly, the model is REX-C100FK02-M-AN
                datasheet here: http://www.fmfranklin.com.au/products/data/rkc/c100inst.pdf

                As you can see, this brand has different models for voltage pulse output and relay output, and they use the same pins. I realised this after id already bought it, I emailed the seller to see if they had the voltage pulse model but they didnt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                  Just looking at that datasheet, looks like the setting you are talking about Kevin is "Proportional Cycle" lets me set from 1 to 100 seconds, so i guess ill just make sure that is set to 1.
                  Thanks heaps for that, definitely something i would never of even looked at

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                    quite different in the programming to the n2006p.

                    correct- propotional cycle is the setting.to play with.

                    actually it looks like an RKC rip off ( see the bottom ) - they are a famous Japan brand and i doubt they sell their PIDs for $15!


                    Originally posted by 516F6A6D6F060 link=1334794026/7#7 date=1334890566
                    brettly, the model is REX-C100FK02-M-AN
                    datasheet here: http://www.fmfranklin.com.au/products/data/rkc/c100inst.pdf

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                      Originally posted by 47797C7B79100 link=1334794026/8#8 date=1334891106
                      Just looking at that datasheet, looks like the setting you are talking about Kevin is "Proportional Cycle" lets me set from 1 to 100 seconds, so i guess ill just make sure that is set to 1.
                      Thanks heaps for that, definitely something i would never of even looked at
                      As I said - probably in the small beer category - heating things tend to have so much in built "inertia" that the difference between 1, 2 and 5 second cycling might be hard to detect. But in a Thermoblock design, you probably do want it to be as fast as possible..

                      /Kevin

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                        done. works like a charm
                        picture attached

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                          Good work! [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

                          Do you have any info in regard to what parts you used, the wiring details etc?

                          How do they work for the steam setting? Or is it only for brew and gets bypassed for steaming?

                          Cheers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                            Originally posted by 382B2D343837590 link=1334794026/12#12 date=1335091762
                            Good work!  [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

                            Do you have any info in regard to what parts you used, the wiring details etc?

                            How do they work for the steam setting?  Or is it only for brew and gets bypassed for steaming?

                            Cheers
                            Thanks!
                            Parts: pretty much all from ebay. not sure if i am allowed to link them here?
                            http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SSR-25-DA-Solid-State-Relay-PID-Temperature-Controller-25A-Output-24V-380V-/280776557335?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&h ash=item415f964317
                            http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Dual-Digital-PID-Celsius-Temperature-Control-Controller-Thermocouple-REX-C100-/230753283975?pt=AU_Gadgets&hash=item35b9f7af87
                            http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1M-3-3ft-K-Type-Thermocouple-Control-Temperature-Controller-0-400C-Sensor-Probe-/280849287636?pt=AU_Electronics_Accessories_Wires_C ables&hash=item4163ec09d4

                            But as I said, I got the wrong PID and needed to unsolder the internal relay and solder wires for my solid state relay. so you have to make sure everything you buy will work with each other. most PIDs seem to use K type thermocouples.

                            I have seen kits which come with PID, SSR, and Thermocouple for $42 such as this one, so you know what you are buying will all work together:
                            http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AC-100-240V-PID-Digital-temperature-controller-25A-SSR-K-Sensor-Thermostat-/220890859067?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&h ash=item336e1f063b
                            But that is like twice what i paid buying them individually.

                            For the cabling, I just cut up an old power lead I had, then I used some heat proof braid tube stuff from jaycar to protect it.

                            When I started this project, I was thinking, hey anyone could do this, I could make a kit and sell it. But as I was wiring it up, I released that every machine is going to be different, you have to trace back the wires and work out how to modify it.

                            For my machine, I have left it so when you switch to steam, the heating element is just hard on, bypasses the PID, same as factory.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: PID Temp Control for less than $50

                              Thanks for the info, it looks relatively straight forward. I must give this a go when I get a chance.

                              Cheers

                              Comment

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