Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • beanflying
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    As per Attilos post above.

    Coffee can be different not worse or bad but just different with a range of gear.

    I did some testing a little while ago with a K8 (84mm flat burr) and a K10 (68mm conical) set them both up to run similar shot times on the same dose and yep they were different. To taste the k10 by fraction but I wouldnt have been upset by th K8 shots.

    Also ran a few back to back tests ( I want to do more of this) 55mm Izzo against the 58mm Fioranzato Levers. 55mm Izzo is better than the 58mm across the board (so far), the 58 is never a bad shot but there is a little something extra in the 55mm.

    I suppose the point here is get the best out of whatever gear you have with good technique will kick the ass of a numpty at your local cafe on their YAWN : Synesso/Robur or LSM or ....... if the dont care or dont take the time to get it right.

    Leave a comment:


  • Barry O'Speedwagon
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Originally posted by 152136203B0C103C35353636530 link=1338355533/51#51 date=1339836547
    Which is better, an orange or a mandarin?
    Depends on the warranty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Yes but thats just an individual opinion of what is "better".

    The two machines make different coffee, period. Both ristrettos can be great but different, and then an individual has to make a choice between the two.

    Wynton, you need to go somewhere where you can compare the two machines (and forget the PID which is only a complication in a choice between two different machines.....compare Silvia to PVL...same beans, same grinder same operator (who needs to know how to use both to best effect)). That is the only way you are going to be able to make a decision for yourself.

    Its not just the difference in the coffees each will produce, there is also a whole different modus operandi involved.

    Which is better, an orange or a mandarin?

    I will say again...you will need to make the choice for yourself. Asking others what they think is "better" doesnt get you what you want only what someone else thought.

    Leave a comment:


  • early_morning_
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Originally posted by 012F382239386E61560 link=1338355533/49#49 date=1339729368
    I hate to bang on but speleomike, but could you answer me this, given the same bean/circumstances ect, will your pvl make a better ristretto than your old pidd silvia?? thanks
    comparing my pidd gaggia classic and my pvl, yes, the pvl produces a noticeably superior ristretto.

    Leave a comment:


  • Wynton87
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Originally posted by 596D7A6C77405C7079797A7A1F0 link=1338355533/35#35 date=1339380047
    Cutting back to the chase. The answer to the question is, decide what you want.
    Sorry fresh coffee that doesnt really help..  :-?

    But i really liked speleomikes comments about his exprerience with both a pidd silvia and his pvl now, im pretty interested in the pvl now. I hate to bang on but speleomike, but could you answer me this, given the same bean/circumstances ect, will your pvl make a better ristretto than your old pidd silvia?? thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    "Its black"

    "No its not, its white"

    "Black"

    "White"

    Repeat ad infinitum :

    Leave a comment:


  • blend52
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Originally posted by 2A293C353C363430323C590 link=1338355533/45#45 date=1339418158
    (PS. You cant get good a PID unit for <$50)
    This is a true statement .. but only because "good" is a relative term.
    An industrial control technician , or military procurements agent, might well argue that you cant get a "good" PID for under $2000, .
    ..It all depends on the application requirements and specification you require.
    To control the temp on a Silvia, you dont need a very sophisticated PID, infact you dont really need a PID at all...a simple $10 digital thermostat will do the job very nicely within 1 -2 degrees, but i have yet to find one with the same small form factor as the miniature PIDs.
    So whilst a $20 PID may not be "good" for controlling industrial equipment, it is infact grossly over spec for keeping the Silvia boiler at any temp you may wish to set, and give you a visual temperature display as a bonus.
    Its certainly a much better piece of control equipment than the stock thermostat !

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Actually Mike I think youve brought in the little bit of extra info needed & tidied it all up nicely. Good post

    Leave a comment:


  • speleomike
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Hi Wynton87

    So should you buy a lever or PID your Silvia?
    Its nice that you have had quite a lot of advice above. Ill throw in my 2c worth.

    First off ... I PIDd my Silvia many years ago, I also have a LaPavoni Europiccolo Lever machine & a PontVecchio Lusso dual lever machine so I can talk from experience with all three.

    My first machine was a Silvia and I PIDd it with the PID kit that you can buy. It was about $700 many year ago but came with the PID unit, all the wires, fittings, mounting and instructions. Even though I have designed PID gear in the past getting it all as one kit saved me lots of time and effort. (PS. You cant get good a PID unit for <$50). After this I didnt have to "temperature surf" and I could just come up to the Silvia and make a cup fast with no frigging around. I could also experiment with slightly different temperature settings for fun. But it does not make better coffee compared to spending time on the Silvia to get it right. It can help you make good coffee more consistently. I sold the PID Silvia to a CSer many years ago. It is a nice machine with PID.

    Levers ... LaPavoni and the PonteVecchio Lusso have small portafilters and baskets (48mm dia) and you will really notice that coming from a Silvia. You wont get as big a shot.

    The LaPavoni, as people have mentioned, will give you one or two shots, then you will need to cool it or leave it. By then you will have run out of water in its small boiler and you will have to leave it to cool before filling up.
    But if you practice and are lucky those LaPavoni shots can be really luscious. Its a machine "just for you".

    The PonteVecchio is nice as it has two levers and it does not over heat, you can leave it on all day. Its got a big boiler so you can do several shots at least. I can do a nice shot for myself and my wife but for her I do a machiatto and there is not enough coffee in the shot for a full sized cup. It makes quite good espresso, again like all lever machine after a bit of practice.

    What would I really like? A lever machine with a 58 mm portafilter!

    Summary for you. A PID is not needed to make a better shot - it will make it easier to use the Silvia and will add techno-bling. A lever wont make nice big cappuccinos for guests but it will be fun to play with. It gives real coffee-cred. They are apples and oranges. Of course this probably hasnt helped you make the decision :-)

    Mike

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Still OT but whatever.....

    Perhaps it is a peculiarity of our showroom, but very few clients that come in (whether they buy or not) want to or for that matter know enough to buy new equipment, and want to start modifying it.

    That is, my experience of clients, is they want something that just works, straight up, and gives them what they would like. The equipment is a means to an end...classic example....cafe equipment.

    I dont think our clients consider that to be "buying" a good coffee in that they could have bought a lesser type of equipment then modded it up. Its not what regular (the majority if you like) of clients look for in a new machine.

    Just because a client is not interested in the specific workings of, or in modding equipment, doesnt mean he is not an "interested coffee enthusiast". I would call someone that is in addition to being interested in the coffee, also interested in the equipment, as an equipment enthusiast and the two dont have to run together.

    I also dont consider expecting equipment to work well straight up, as meaning you only want minimal personal input.

    Silvia in its ex factory standard form, in fact is a prime example of equipment that works extremely well as is, and nevertheless requires the client/operator to make more than a minimal personal input.

    Just my 4.5 cents worth.

    Leave a comment:


  • blend52
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Well, certainly if we are considering those interested only in "buying" a good coffee with minimal personal input .....then yes, a PIDd silvia will cost more than $700.
    However, you cannot ignore the fact that it is possible for an "interested " coffee enthusiast to have a new PIDd Silvia for $700, BUT not likely for him to find any other comparable new m/c for similar money ..
    ..OR have i missed some hidden bargain gem somewhere ? :-[

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Oh and while were at it. I have another consignment of Silvia /Rockys coming shortly EX FACTORY.

    As usual, none of them will be sold for the silly price mentioned above. At risk of repeating, most clients want us to set up and show them how to use, and that means they pay a premium and not the silly "here is the box but dont talk to me as I am not being paid to talk back to you " price.

    The box movers have moved in, but they havent taken over. Again, this forum giving a false impression of the real state of affairs which is, most people are not paying "box price" for the silvia. That would be...the silent majority.

    Those that do, are usually the first to return because they blew the element which is not covered by guarantee (because it is mostly caused by the operator).

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Yes....and no.

    We differ in our opinions.

    "Most people" who are interested in pidding will buy a new silvia and have it pidded before delivery with a PID kit. So the bare cost of the parts to a tinkerer is not relevant. I can buy a muffler and have it delivered to my hand for $50.00, but when I buy it fitted to my car its atleast $300.00. Some others will buy a PID kit and install that, because they dont hae the foggiest where to buy what components, or after that, what to do with them/.

    My opinion, is these pages give readers a false impression. It seems that "everyone is doin it" (whatever "it" is) when in fact, a very small number of people are doin it and the rest actually...are not and get professionals to do it for them. Wghich increases (rightly) the price.

    Off topic yet again, and I hope that helps.

    Leave a comment:


  • blend52
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    Originally posted by 53554957524D51503E0 link=1338355533/37#37 date=1339385503
    Originally posted by 7F71787379282F1D0 link=1338355533/36#36 date=1339385045
    If the cost of pidding a silvia runs out to say somwehere around a thousand dollars,
    ;D ;D ;D
    Vast majority of PID installs are done by owners /friends.
    Considering you can buy the PID parts for <$50 , your estimate seems a little excessive ..
    ...even on top of a new $650 machine !
    So the Oscar ( nice idea..but).. is still $600 more ...or nearly double $$$s
    Hes talking about the cost including that of the Silvia.....
    so was I..

    New V3 Silvia = $650 ( or less !)
    PID parts = $50 ( or less)
    TOTAL = $700 (or less)

    New Oscar = $1300

    Difference = $600 (or more !)

    Not really in the same price bracket !

    Leave a comment:


  • coffee_machinist
    replied
    Re: Should i buy a lever or PID my Silvia??

    What do you think enters a heat exchanger then? Hot water?

    Steel is another thing, Im talking about brass (pavoni and nearly all groups), which has excellent thermal transfer properties and is very resilient.

    If thermal shocks weakened components in coffee machines, youd never see a functioning old one :-?

    Sorry, this is ludicrously OT.

    I would look into adding a thermocouple to your Silvia (see also gronking). Its cheap and very effective at allowing you a modicum of control over shot temperature.

    Domestic levers of the Pavonis size have just as bad if not worse thermal management issues.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X