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Manual pre infusion on an E61 group ?

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  • Manual pre infusion on an E61 group ?

    Being a wet day (again) , i was casually watching a youtube about pre infusion on the Expobar Brutus ..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKDvJUxrXDo&feature=relmfu
    Now, either the Brutus E61 group is very different to mine ,(Isomac) or the guy is mistaken about how the group works.
    He seems to ignore the "built in" E61 mechanical pre infusion ( 5-7secs), and thinks he can manually control the pre infusion time by using the lever mid position. ??
    Or am i wrong in thinking that any "manual" preinfusion he does is additional to the in built function.?
    IE:- there is no way to override or prevent the inbuilt pre infusion on the E61 :-/

  • #2
    Re: Manual pre infusion on an E61 group ?

    The machine he is using is a plumbed in version. Looking at the pressure gauge during his shot I would think that the position he has the lever in opens the plumbing using the in line water pressure, but before engaging the pump.

    Just my thoughts on the built in pre infusion you refer to, it is just the reaction time for the pump to get the pressure to the coffee puck. Every manufacture would be different in the brew path from the pump to the group head.

    Just my thoughts, without knowing the Isomac or the expobar minore 4.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Manual pre infusion on an E61 group ?

      Isomac has a standard Faema E61, not sure if expobar does their own version or not.
      Pulling the lever to the mid point will usually open the top cam in the E61, allowing some water to trickle through the thermosyphon, but wont engage the pump yet. You can do this on a tank version (if no water comes out just touch the level up ever so slightly and youll see some water begin to drip out), but, as Ronin said, I would assume on a plumbed version opening that top cam you would get main pressure as well.
      On a tank version it really just wets the puck with a few drops rather than actual low pressure pre-infusion. Not sure exactly how effective it is on a plumbed.
      In any case though, once the pump is engaged, the E61 will still do its mechanical pre-infusion no matter what (Unless of course you take the spring for the pre-infusion chamber out!).

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      • #4
        Re: Manual pre infusion on an E61 group ?

        Originally posted by 210D0E0B0C3D35620 link=1339856763/1#1 date=1339898572
        Just my thoughts on the built in pre infusion you refer to, it is just the reaction time for the pump to get the pressure to the coffee puck.
          not exactly...
        According to reviews, ( HB site) the Brutus uses a "standard"  Faema  E 61 with mechanical  Pre-infusion Thats 5-7 secs of low pressure flow to the puck when the pump starts..
        Mid lever position should do nothing ..both valves closed.
        Mid position + a little more... opens the brew water valve ( but doesnt start the pump ) and allows "manual" pre-infusion at whatever pressure is in the HX circuit.
        When the pump starts as the lever is fully lifted, the automatic mechanical pre-infusion keeps the pressure down for a initial period.
        On my "tank" isomac, the "manual" P-I position gives a steady trickle of water to the puck ..continuous even tho the pump is not running !.
          So, conclusions..
        1) Manual P-I seems pointless on an E61.
        2) A "standard" E61 will always give P-I of 5-7 secs
        3) No way of avoiding P-I an an E61 without modifications.
        4) ..dont believe everything you hear on Youtube ! ;D

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        • #5
          Interesting that the pump in the video turns on near the top.

          Mine turns on as soon as the lever is lifted. Would there be any benefits if the switch was adjusted to turn on midway or near the top position?

          Comment


          • #6
            What m/c do you have SP ?
            My (limitied) understanding of the classic E61 function is as i posted above..
            ..IE.
            Mid lever position should do nothing ..both valves closed.
            Mid position + a little more... opens the brew water valve ( but doesnt start the pump ) and allows "manual" pre-infusion at whatever pressure is in the HX circuit.
            The pump starts as the lever is fully lifted
            Minor adjustments to the valve settings, and pump switch, can alter the timing/sequence of some of these actions, but i do believe the lever was never intended to be held in the "mid" position..its just a result of the cam design in the group body

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by blend52 View Post
              What m/c do you have SP ?
              My (limitied) understanding of the classic E61 function is as i posted above..
              ..IE.


              Minor adjustments to the valve settings, and pump switch, can alter the timing/sequence of some of these actions, but i do believe the lever was never intended to be held in the "mid" position..its just a result of the cam design in the group body
              It's a non-plumbed Duetto - so I dont have the lines pressure like the video. The pump draws from the water tank and activates when the lever is pulled upwards (as soon as it falls off the cam... if you know what i mean). It's never crossed my mind to actually hold the lever in the mid position, and it's something that was probably never intended as you said.

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