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  • #16
    Re: Rate of failure Polls

    Originally posted by robusto link=1168392943/0#13 date=1168430352
    Todays VHS is as light as a feather, with all components including motors and heads, tacked on to a printed circuit board which serves as the "chassis".   When it heats up, it warps,  and  you simply throw the whole unit out and buy the next generation in the offing.
    --Robusto
    Ummm there are these new things out called DVDs!

    Your points from your post are true though they just dont make things like they used to in this competitive market where people value price over quality that comes at a cost. Same with cars really! As long as things look shiney people will buy them.
    I mean if I could have stretched the budget I would have gone Giotto over the Expobar.

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    • #17
      Re: Rate of failure Polls

      Originally posted by ozscott link=1168392943/0#1 date=1168393802
      why do you say you expect a significant increase in the rate of failure of the EM6910 - is it all the electronics?
      They have only been out a couple of months and they already have a failure rate approaching 20%. They have 6 times as much use yet to go before theyll have been in service for a full year. The number of failures can only go up from here unless something is changed on the design/build end.

      Silvias have been around for many years and as such the rate of failure shown can be said to be fairly representative of a full year of service, not just a couple of months.

      are you posting the actual votes for the Silvia poll Java - its not up yet
      The polls have been opened in that as soon as you vote you can see the results. But you have to vote to see the results. Hence the third option in all the polls "I dont own one, I just want to see the results!".


      Java "Stand up and be counted. Vote!" phile
      Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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      • #18
        Re: Rate of failure Polls

        cheers mate

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        • #19
          Re: Rate of failure Polls

          Im confident Javaphile does not intend his poll to be definitive --but rather, indicative.

          With professionally conducted polls, there is an inherent degree of sampling error to start with, around plus or minus 2 per cent.

          Here, every Silvia of Sunbeam owner who does not access the internet is automatically eliminated from the sample. Every Silvia or Sunbeam owner who does not access the Coffeesnobs site, ditto.

          What the poll shows -- is the percentage of failures among owners who voted. You would have to have a a volume of data such as sales volumes to weigh the sample accordingly... out of the polls scope, of course.

          Still, as an indicative ball-park figure, the exercise and finding are interesting to say the least.

          Ro "Im no statistician" busto

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          • #20
            Re: Rate of failure Polls

            Originally posted by Coffeechaser link=1168392943/15#15 date=1168431942
            Ummm there are these new things out called DVDs!  
            Why not use a hard drive recorder that can also read/write dvds?  :P

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Rate of failure Polls

              Originally posted by robusto link=1168392943/15#18 date=1168461380
              Here, every Silvia of Sunbeam owner who does not access the internet is automatically eliminated from the sample. Every Silvia or Sunbeam owner who does not access the Coffeesnobs site, ditto.

              What the poll shows -- is the percentage of failures among owners who voted. You would have to have a a volume of data such as sales volumes to weigh the sample accordingly... out of the polls scope, of course.

              Still, as an indicative ball-park figure, the exercise and finding are interesting to say the least.

              Ro "Im no statistician" busto

              I am a mathematician/statistician and this poll is useless. Sample space is way too small, biased and skewed. The only meaningful poll would be to contact Sunbeam and Rancilio direct.

              Good for entertainment value.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Rate of failure Polls

                Yes and no IMHO.....people generally gripe when something breaks....and there has been a whole lot of gripe about the 6900 both here and on CG....and the 6900 doesnt even go to the US....

                Based on the seatofthepantsometer, there is no doubt that a whole heap of 6900s broke...I doubt that anyone in Oz is on Silvia number 3 or 4....There are stories of Sunbeam owners with many replacements.
                Perhaps, there are more Sunbeams in Australia than Silvias but Id be surprised. The Silvia has been on the market for 10 years. Despite the limited sample, this anecdotal evidence probably means something....

                2mcm

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                • #23
                  Re: Rate of failure Polls


                  I think the fact that Sunbeam have replaced failing EM6900s with the new EM6910 says it all. The EM6900 was a lemon.

                  As for the poll on the EM6910 vs Silvia, I agree with our statistician that it is meaningless. It would be nice to get the real stats from Sunbeam though... Im sure they are kept in a vault guarded by robotic sentries with high powered laser weapons designed to incapacitate armoured vehicles.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Rate of failure Polls

                    Other than just the failure rate is the general public perception of different machines and their longevity/reliability.....

                    Using Evilbay as a reference

                    A Gaggia Classic 3 1/2 years old in "good condition" fetched 43% of new value...

                    A "barely used" Cafe Series Sunbeam 6 months old in "as new" condition fetched 28% of new value.....

                    Silvias dont appear on Evilbay.... (Read what you want into that) but on CoffeeSnobs they fetch up to 75% of new price...

                    Whilst Evilbay isnt the best of reference sites :, it does indicate how the market perceives the relative merit and longevity of machines from different manufacturers.... using a large number of perspective buyers.......

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                    • #25
                      Re: Rate of failure Polls

                      Originally posted by JavaB link=1168392943/15#23 date=1168487601

                      (Read what you want into that)
                      And Ill do just that!

                      The silvia is not well known by the general public.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Rate of failure Polls

                        Originally posted by Sparky link=1168392943/15#22 date=1168483525
                        I think the fact that Sunbeam have replaced failing EM6900s with the new EM6910 says it all.  It would be nice to get the real stats from Sunbeam though... Im sure they are kept in a vault guarded by robotic sentries with high powered laser weapons designed to incapacitate armoured vehicles.
                        You never know - if the robotic sentries are version 1, they might fail when used a few times.  :P

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                        • #27
                          Re: Rate of failure Polls

                          Originally posted by fatboy link=1168392943/15#25 date=1168489818
                          Originally posted by Sparky link=1168392943/15#22 date=1168483525
                          I think the fact that Sunbeam have replaced failing EM6900s with the new EM6910 says it all.  It would be nice to get the real stats from Sunbeam though... Im sure they are kept in a vault guarded by robotic sentries with high powered laser weapons designed to incapacitate armoured vehicles.
                          You never know - if the robotic sentries are version 1, they might fail when used a few times.  :P
                          or Sunbeam put more R&D into the robot sentries than the machines.... Whos willing to test this?

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                          • #28
                            Re: Rate of failure Polls

                            Originally posted by barri link=1168392943/15#24 date=1168489463
                            Originally posted by JavaB link=1168392943/15#23 date=1168487601

                            (Read what you want into that)
                            And Ill do just that!

                            The silvia is not well known by the general public.
                            CS are not the general public.

                            The poll is of a certain demographic - coffee snobs.

                            Some CS own EMs, some own Silvias.
                            So how is the poll useless?
                            I agree the sample is small but as 2mcm said, the "anecdotal evidence probably means something".

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Rate of failure Polls

                              Its often the anectodal which hold more truth (alla lies, damned lies and statistics) than statistics.

                              The most powerful form of advertising, word of mouth, is based on anectodes, not carefully digested stats.

                              As I say, forget the science or lack thereof of the poll, use it as a ballpark guide, and be entertained.

                              -Robusto

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Rate of failure Polls

                                Ok the 6900 has a poor track record (probably a lemon) and we all know that but if 3 out of 20 coffee snobs complain about the 6910 or the silvia then what can we learn from that? Are they bad or are those 3 complaints isolated incidences. Is this anecdotal evidence to indicate bad products? What about 3 in a 100? Its impossible to tell! Like you said I will be more entertained by the poll rather than finding out anything useful I can pass on to perspective buyers. Anecdotally (my gut feeling - not using science anymore) is that the silvia is reliable and the 6910 probably is but its too early to call. I promise not to give anyone a stats lesson! ;D

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