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20 amp machine question

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  • #16
    Ok - from an electrician - do not touch anything that involves 240V wiring - there is a high probability you will kill yourself - just look at how many sparkies die each year due to them becoming complacent.
    without getting technical there are a myriad of things you can do to make a machine dangerous without tripping a circuit breaker.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Yelta View Post
      misinformation, here say, supposition and guess work
      Originally posted by Yelta View Post
      Daniel, sounds to like your in way over your depth, get some advice from a licensed sparky.
      Originally posted by themurphs View Post
      I hate to be a killjoy but;
      Please do not try to attempt any electrical mods if you are not licence to do so or even if you are questioning what to do.
      Originally posted by Andy View Post
      If you have to ask then you shouldnt be doing it!
      ...
      Don't do it.
      Originally posted by early_morning_ View Post
      an electrician should be able to install a 20a socket directly into your fuse box for a nominal fee. this is probably your cheapest + safest way out...
      Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
      Coffee equipment (includes espresso machine) service and repair is a SPECIALISED TRADE in itself and most "regular" sparkies are not familiar with the finer points. That is a simple fact of life. And ofcourse, most coffee equipment repairers are correspondingly not familiar with wiring up electrical circuits in buildings.......they are different trades. So if there is a problem with a coffee machine, you call a coffee machine repairer not a sparkie.
      all seems to be pretty sound advice to me :\

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      • #18
        Early morning you beat me to it!

        my apology, i did say i was from an industrial background and was thinking of the 56 series gear.

        Yelta, next time i won't be so subtle, I am new here.

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        • #19
          I don't see a problem with any of the responses - all good sound advice so far. Get off you high horse yelta. And why can't people discuss 240v issues? I didn't realize there was a taboo on this. Sigh.....

          Originally posted by Yelta View Post
          We see this type of thread over and over, a constant barrage of misinformation, here say, supposition and guess work, all stuff to literally make your hair stand on end.
          It's just a matter of time before one of the trusting souls acting on information given by one of these clowns fry's themselves.
          Threads or posts offering advice on carrying out 240 volt electrical work should be flagged for automatic deletion.
          People can get themselves into enough hot water without any help from other unqualified experts.
          I very much doubt a qualified electrician would ever venture an opinion in an open forum such as this

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Fresh_Coffee View Post
            Oh I should have mentioned:
            Coffee equipment (includes espresso machine) service and repair is a SPECIALISED TRADE in itself and most "regular" sparkies are not familiar with the finer points. That is a simple fact of life. And ofcourse, most coffee equipment repairers are correspondingly not familiar with wiring up electrical circuits in buildings.......they are different trades. So if there is a problem with a coffee machine, you call a coffee machine repairer not a sparkie.
            Too true - I have seen espresso machine techs get themselves into trouble fiddling with mains circuitry on the 'wrong' side of the plug/socket interface (even ones with connect/disconnect licences that should know a thing or two) and I have also seen electricians get themselves in trouble fiddling with espresso machines. I was installing a San Marino once in a new store - the electrician was fitting an isolation switch rather than a socket, and after I put the machine on the bench and ran the wires and hoses through the benchtop, I went back to my van to get the rest of the fittings I needed. When I came back he had jumped the gun and connected the wiring and powered the machine up - problem was, there was no water connected yet, and he had wired both the main power lead and the lead for the external pump into the isolation box and pumped a whole lot of silicone sealant around the wiring because he didn't have a cable gland that would fit the wires! Fortunately nothing was damaged as a result.
            But it did make one thing clear about the relative responsibilities of the electrician and the coffee equipment tech - the tech should be responsible for specifying what sort of power supply is required (single or 3 phase, plus amperage requirement) and how close it should be, and it should then be up to the electrician to provide that, safely and within legal specs. Unless the tech has a connect/disconnect licence (which I don't yet) he should go no further than plugging in to the provided outlet, but he should also be smart enough NOT to modify things to suit if the wrong (underpowered) circuit has been provided. This is often an issue in my job, as the coffee companies we work for often don't communicate the technical requirements to their customers very well, so it's a common issue to turn up to install a 20 amp or 25 amp machine and find the customer has only provided a 15 amp circuit. They often don't like to be told we can't plug the machine in until they upgrade the power, as often they have had the previous machine running off that outlet without burning the place down, but it may well have been running right on the safety margins of the circuit. That's the real reason for the different size plug pins for the different amp ratings - I installed a machine last week that was 20 amp, and there was only a 15 amp circuit. I told the customer they had to get an electrician to upgrade the circuit to 20 amp - in the meantime, the fact that the 20 amp plug physically wouldn't fit the 15 amp socket means they can't plug the machine in by themselves and trip a circuit or start a fire. And when the electrician attends, he can change the socket, fit heavier gauge wiring if required, and upgrade the breaker. Of course, I have seen many cases where the 'upgrade' was done solely by replacing the socket, but the responsibility for any consequences falls onto the electrician, who ought to be trained well enough NOT to take such short cuts. The ultimate dodgy short cut I saw was where we needed an outlet upgraded from 10 to 15 amps for a temporary relocation of a machine due to renovations. The onsite 'handyman' couldn't find the switchboard that circuit was running from, so without knowing the breaker or wire ratings, or even what else was on that circuit, he just replaced the 10A outlet plate with a 15A one - and because he couldn't find the breaker, he did it LIVE - the sole concession to safety was to handle the wires with pliers (not even proper insulated pliers!) rather than his bare hands!

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