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So fed up with sunbeam machine

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  • #16
    Originally posted by youngchul76 View Post
    i bought this 1kg bag of supermarket brand
    I'd sooner eat soap.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by youngchul76 View Post
      my current one is a very malleable rubber, but one on ebay seems like a plastic??
      Probably a 3rd party replacement part - non-genuine. Can't comment on how well they work.

      Which machine do you have?

      Maybe contact this company as it looks more like the original seal -

      eBay link removed per the http://coffeesnobs.com.au/general-ne...icy-rules.html

      Depending on which machine you have I may have a spare seal left over from when my missus was using an EM3800 a while back. Another CSer supplied to me free of charge so I can do the same.

      Just try to adjust the grind, tamp, basket fill before worrying about the seal. As you do get "2 out of 3" to flow properly the issue is more than likely consistency of preparation.
      Last edited by Javaphile; 22 April 2013, 12:26 PM. Reason: eBay link removed

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      • #18
        What is your machine and grinder model? It would help to know so the advice can be more specific.

        I got a new seal from eBay and it was softer than I was expecting, not a hard plastic at all. I was expecting hard plastic (I hadn't stripped mine out yet as I wanted to have the spare on hand just in case) due to the pressures involved.

        Mine machine is an EM6910 and I was getting water out the group head - it tended to come out first around the larger top circle then would leak out in the middle and into my cup. When I put the new seal in and tried a cup it did exactly the same thing. I swapped back and started re-working my technique.

        The grind has to be right. With my repaired (by me) EM0480 grinder the steps (1 - 24) seem to have significant effect on the grind - on one bean I use, going from 7 to 5 goes from pretty damn good pour to wanting to spurt out the top and trying to unwind the PF.

        The tamp has to be right - I had some experiences with commercial machines where I was forbidden to touch the grind, so I learned back then to pour a test shot and adjust my tamp weight accordingly so I could get a decent shot. This machine seems even more sensitive to pressure of the tamp. I suggest take the advice about bathroom scales seriously - learn to judge your pressure properly - use the tamper on the scales and try doing it eyes closed and then see how close you can get to the 15kg mentioned.

        The final step to getting my leaks under control was to reduce the amount of coffee in the PF. I was using pretty much the same measure as I did with the professional gear - about 2mm - 3mm below the rim of the filter. In my Sunbeam I need less coffee - about 4mm seems to run nicely.

        SO my process is, grind into the PF, shake the mound level, grind a bit more, shake again and tamp. It's rare now I get any water coming out the top - usually when I swap to new beans and have to learn the right grind for them.

        I get a reasonable coffee from Vittoria beans - I buy fresh roasted from the local roasters for me and friends who actually have a coffee palate, but I use the Vittoria for those normally happy to drink Nescafe - I don't see why I should pay premiumj price for people who care so little about their coffee and the Vittoria beans always have them going 'WOW!' anyway, so I'm not doing them harm...

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        • #19
          ok, reporting back after a few things.

          1) machine name is em3500. grinder is em0480.

          2) was using grind setting of 8 yesterday when the explosion occurred. Strange thing is, up to that explosion it was extracting fine with that grind setting (flowing honey, literally) and then tse tse tse tschiiiiiiing the water started leaking from one spot then the rest of the PF.

          3) this morning i took the advice and eased off on the grind to like 10, 11, 12, and it's still leaking. It is definitely NOT a tamp or coffee amount, I had to tell my dad that everything was ok when he saw me grabbing the bathroom scale and tamping on the scale with my eyes closed. Yes, you can so imagine what your parents would think of you if they saw the same thing. I think I have been tamping with ~8kg so far, but anyway I tried to equalize at ~12kg with no success. I filled coffee to 3-4mm from the brim.

          couple of questions.

          1) Are you supposed to twist the PF all the way to the right until it stops when you lock it in? I'm wondering if I may have caused a small injury to the group seal by twisting it all the way until it literally can't go anymore.

          2) Well, I think following everyone's advice re grind setting, I'm sure I can stop it leaking if I go up to like 15, which is very coarse. The problem is, I get a watery pour and unless I set it to below 10, I can't get that golden honey (ah.. that was like heaven yesterday)

          Would it help if I took a video of the whole process of grinding extracting and the leaky part? Is there anyway to post a video here?

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          • #20
            I think you have to post it to youtube then link that here. You might want to PM mattbr who had a EM3500 - see his thread at http://coffeesnobs.com.au/brewing-eq...am-em3500.html

            It's normal to turn the PF all the way to the right - unless your machine is radically different the contact is metal-to-metal so I doubt hand-tight could damage it.

            You might want to check the seal and make sure it wasn't damaged in your 'explosion' but other than that I would suggest taking the bits off, clean them all (don't use a metal scourer) - mine has a second screen sitting in the rubber seal - not sure if yours does.

            While it is apart, clean the parts that come in contact with the handle and up in the channels beside the group head etc. I found an old toothbrush was handy but you might have one of the cleaning brushes that come with some machines.

            Make sure you get things round the right way when putting them back. Ensure everything is sitting snug and do it up tight - the seal has to hold a lot of pressure.

            Try a blind shot - mine has a 'puck' for cleaning that sits in the PF - run a shot into it for about 10 secs then turn off the water. Be careful when removing the PF - if the pressure didn't release the hot water in there will be at pressure. If the seal promptly starts leaking as soon as the shot starts, you've got a leak - it should build up pressure without 'blowing' the seal unless you run it too long.

            There's a manual for your machine at Instruction Booklet : EM3500 and EM3500S | ManualsOnline.com in case you don't have one.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by youngchul76 View Post
              1) Are you supposed to twist the PF all the way to the right until it stops when you lock it in? I'm wondering if I may have caused a small injury to the group seal by twisting it all the way until it literally can't go anymore.
              Normally you lock the PF in tightly but without excess force and the handle would be pointing straight out towards you. If the handle is pointing to the right it sounds like either the seal or the group head is damaged. Is the portion of the group head where the PF locks into plastic or metal?

              PS Just checked my missus old EM3800 and the group collar/lugs are plastic. As Leo says below, excess force may have damaged the collar/lugs or caused wear to the point of not being able to tighten the PF enough. If it is just a bit of excess wear, you may be able to use a spacer behind the group seal similar but smaller than the EM6910 spacer.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by youngchul76 View Post

                Q1) Are you supposed to twist the PF all the way to the right until it stops when you lock it in? I'm wondering if I may have caused a small injury to the group seal by twisting it all the way until it literally can't go anymore.

                Q2) Would it help if I took a video of the whole process of grinding extracting and the leaky part? Is there anyway to post a video here?
                A1. I don't want to be the bringer of bad news, so I hope I'm wrong about this. But if you have been cranking the PF handle too hard too often, you may have damaged not just the seal, but the brew-head collar insert too. Most ( maybe all ?? ) Sunbeams have a plastic cam inside the collar which the PF lugs ride on to pull it up against the seal. Some of them have an all-plastic collar.
                If you put too much pressure on it by cranking too hard, or by choking the the machine too often, it will wear, and/or deform, so that even with a new seal, you will get leakage between the basket and the seal due to uneven or insufficient pressure.

                A2. I don't think a video would help much in this case. All it will show is that you have a leak between the basket and the seal when you grind fine enough to get a good pour.

                There is a discussion & pic of this on P77 of the Breville BES900 Dual Boiler - Owners thread.
                Last edited by leograyson; 22 April 2013, 03:03 PM. Reason: Added last para

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                • #23
                  I'm going to have to pull mine apart again - I don't recall any plastic in there. From memory the 'slide' up which the PF rides to lock in is all metal. I've got the Service Manual on my other laptop (picking it up today from the warranty fix) so I'll double check. Maybe my water issues are because that plastic is NOT in there...

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                  • #24
                    ok, my PF actually turns quite a lot to the right of the centre.
                    I really, really can't feel any metal looking inside the collar, I'm pretty sure it's plastic.

                    I think..
                    I think...

                    I think it may be time for me to change..

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                    • #25
                      Maybe you need a new brew head lock. If you've been pushing too far to the right then it's quite possibly worn.
                      Attached Files

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                      • #26
                        that seal you posted from ebay is for a EM6900-6910. the one you'd be after is from the same seller though, search "sunbeam group head seal" and you should get 5 results. all are blue except one that's the same colour as yours, that's the one you want.
                        the machine wont have a metal collar though, it's too cheap. it's be a hard plastic like the one in whowe's post. however trying to find a new one will be a pain, spare parts support for that machine is slim.

                        however, knowing what model the machine is now, yeah it might not be worth it after all. i thought it was an ok one, but the EM3500 is pretty low. with the new information provided in the thread, it is looking a bit like a lost cause. don't ditch the machine though, keep trying stuff like the others have suggested. you may want to consider for your next machine a Sunbeam EM6910 or similar, that'd be a pretty solid step up from your current machine and not as hefty a price tag as a Silvia.

                        there's plenty of helpful people on the forum and i regularly see 6910's up for sale. you could look for a cheaper boiler machine too, like a Saeco Via Venezia or something. they're pretty good and about half the price of a Silvia.

                        Edit: my bad, the collar's are available, common through the whole cheaper Sunbeam range evidently.
                        Last edited by noidle22; 22 April 2013, 10:27 PM. Reason: misguided information

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                        • #27
                          The brew head lock images were taken from a seller from That Auction Site.

                          Replacing this and the seal should solve your issues unless the lugs on the portafilter are worn from previous overtightening. That shouldn't be likely as metal is a tad harder than plastic.

                          If you decide to cut your losses, there are many used 6910's (dual thermoblock) and usually paired with the EM0480 grinder for sale. I picked up this pair on Gumtree last Xmas in Adelaide for $230. This units had barely been used with decent seals. It was in better condition than my machine here in Tassie. Once cleaned, the machines got a great workout over Xmas/New Year.

                          Once you use a 6910, it's very hard to go back to one of the lower Breville's or Sunbeam's.
                          Last edited by whowe; 23 April 2013, 02:25 AM.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by noidle22 View Post
                            you may want to consider for your next machine a Sunbeam EM6910 or similar, that'd be a pretty solid step up from your current machine and not as hefty a price tag as a Silvia.
                            Are 6910s really cheaper than silvias? I see prices of $500-$750 for both.

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                            • #29
                              There are a lot of used 6910's out there and if find a well cared for unit, you should be able to pick one up for $200 to $300. Used Silvia's aren't as common and also very popular used. Not sure what these go for though but CS'ers who have this machine may sell theirs when upgrading to something else.
                              Last edited by whowe; 23 April 2013, 02:08 PM.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Hildy View Post
                                Are 6910s really cheaper than Silvias? I see prices of $500-$750 for both.
                                Not sure about prices, what I do know is that the Silvia will still be making excellent coffee and retain much of it's value when the Sunbeam has has long since hit the recycle bin.

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