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Why are tampers so expensive?

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  • javatime
    replied
    Well I got a zebrano pullman handle so I would have a complete tamper but would like something more exotic like rosewood or teak. Although these woods are becoming harder and harder to buy.

    Leave a comment:


  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by javatime View Post
    woot! just ordered my first pullman... It is so great to have the flexibility in what you want and great customer service. Thanks Mark. Can't wait to get my hands on my very own 316 nexus base.

    Anyone know if Burmese teak or japanese lark is any good as a handle? I'll probably turn myself a portafilter handle as the curves are not as tricky. Also where do people go to buy such a large headless screw to fit an E61 portafilter.
    Hi javatime

    At least in theory any non-porous hardwood is fine. FWIW, I would match it to the wood of your Pullman handle merely on the grounds of aesthetics unless you have other colour coding in mind. One friend made theirs out of a Pinus Pinaster(? spelling). It is too porous and became known as Pinus Disaster from then on: every bit of sweat, coffee, dirt and possibly even cat fur is embedded in the thing: horrible. My oldest handle is a lightly oiled Jarrah which still looks only a little darker than new. It is over ten years old now, with nine years of heavy use as "primo tamper" pre 316 Pullman w their Jarrah handle.

    TampIt

    Leave a comment:


  • Hamburglar
    replied
    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Gavin (Bogav) does our tampers and they were fantastic to start with. The machining has improved out of sight and his work is now pretty much mirror finish. No tamper I have seen from any manufacturer comes close to the quality of his current lathe work.

    Can I pick any difference in performance whatsoever between the 304 Classic and the 316 Assassin- nope. They're just different in profile. We sell easily 10 Classic per Assassin and rightly so. More importantly, they're perfect for me!
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]5490[/ATTACH]
    Those Bogav tampers look really nice. Just a quick question- Are they 58mm or slightly oversize for Synesso, VST, etc?

    I'm using a homemade tamper at the moment. Fits the basket nicely but not my hand. I keep going back to a crappy undersized cheapie because it just feels nicer to use. It's a bit of a pity because it took a lot of time and effort to make my tamper. $100+ tampers seem like an absolute bargain in comparison.

    Leave a comment:


  • javatime
    replied
    woot! just ordered my first pullman... It is so great to have the flexibility in what you want and great customer service. Thanks Mark. Can't wait to get my hands on my very own 316 nexus base.

    Anyone know if Burmese teak or japanese lark is any good as a handle? I'll probably turn myself a portafilter handle as the curves are not as tricky. Also where do people go to buy such a large headless screw to fit an E61 portafilter.

    Leave a comment:


  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
    I guess that explains why I never need to add sugar to my coffees... my Reg Barber has a Maple handle
    ... and to think I always wondered why I preferred the coffee from the Jarrah or Wenge handles compared to the Oz Oak (the three in the photo). Silly me, I thought it must have been the darker colour.

    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Nevertheless, beautiful wood is special, special.
    Regardless, I also think 304 v 316 is about bragging rights.
    ... Yep, a beautiful wood feels magnificent. That is exactly why all of my latest few years of tamper additions have a wide selection of wood handles. Wood / good plastic / stainless / aluminium / poor plastic in that order for my handles. Purely for the feel.

    304/316: not even close under a mild microscope, let alone a strong one, in terms of finish. I should add "unless your mate knows something mine doesn't". I have never seen / used one of his tampers. Do you know of any in WA I can have a play with? You now have me curious. I'm a function guy: If someone proved that teflon coated civet cat droppings with or without Kopi Luwak beans inside (or any other material of choice) was a better base material I would try it without hesitation.

    Back to the 316 / 304: in a Pullman Barista I now know that I can pick them by feel instantly. A friend swapped his 304 base into my Jarrah handle without telling me as a joke or test. I wondered later if he would have kept the 316 one if I didn't pick it... What difference they make to the final shot quality: probably little to none in my view. Nice to live with: for me, no contest. Less grounds stick on the tamper, nicer feel and better puck polish works for me. Guess that is why I must be a CS. Economically: no way to justify the expense unless you value the tactile sensation above the weight in the wallet.



    TampIt

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
    I guess that explains why I never need to add sugar to my coffees... my Reg Barber has a Maple handle
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    That would certainly explain it.
    Sugar cane handles anyone? :P

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
    Where's the semi-permeable membrane?
    Evening Chris.

    Between the users ears.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
    I guess that explains why I never need to add sugar to my coffees... my Reg Barber has a Maple handle
    That would certainly explain it.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Its all to do with osmosis and dissimilar materials Vinitasse.
    Hmm...that's not the type of osmosis I learned and then taught. Where's the semi-permeable membrane? Dissimilar metals and galvanic corrosion- yep, I get that. Nevertheless, beautiful wood is special, special.

    Regardless, I also think 304 v 316 is about bragging rights.

    Gavin (Bogav) does our tampers and they were fantastic to start with. The machining has improved out of sight and his work is now pretty much mirror finish. No tamper I have seen from any manufacturer comes close to the quality of his current lathe work.

    Can I pick any difference in performance whatsoever between the 304 Classic and the 316 Assassin- nope. They're just different in profile. We sell easily 10 Classic per Assassin and rightly so. More importantly, they're perfect for me!
    Click image for larger version

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    Leave a comment:


  • Vinitasse
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Its all to do with osmosis and dissimilar materials Vinitasse.
    I guess that explains why I never need to add sugar to my coffees... my Reg Barber has a Maple handle

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Originally posted by Vinitasse View Post
    You do know that the shiny metal bit of your tamper should be the end in contact with your coffee... I hope
    Its all to do with osmosis and dissimilar materials Vinitasse.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vinitasse
    replied
    Originally posted by Yelta View Post
    Most seem to focus on the base of the tamper and neglect the material the handle is made from.

    My preference is certainly for handles turned from timber, in particular exotic timbers that have the ability to subtly change the taste of coffee varieties that are tamped using them.

    My particular favourite is Cherry wood, polishes beautifully and as the name implies imparts a delicate hint of Cherry to the cup.

    Rosewood, as we all know, there are so many different varieties of roses it’s difficult to make a choice, however if you like the scent of a particular variety try to get some hard root wood from it and turn the handle from this, my favourite rose variety is Papa Meilland, it should give a delightful rose scent to the coffee, though it may not be to everyone’s taste.

    Sandlewood, not as durable as the previous two but gives a strong aroma of tobacco and spice, haven’t tried it, however, looks interesting, no it won’t make the coffee taste like dirty sandles.

    The list goes on, and is limited only by your imagination.
    You do know that the shiny metal bit of your tamper should be the end in contact with your coffee... I hope

    Leave a comment:


  • Yelta
    replied
    Most seem to focus on the base of the tamper and neglect the material the handle is made from.

    My preference is certainly for handles turned from timber, in particular exotic timbers that have the ability to subtly change the taste of coffee varieties that are tamped using them.

    My particular favourite is Cherry wood, polishes beautifully and as the name implies imparts a delicate hint of Cherry to the cup.

    Rosewood, as we all know, there are so many different varieties of roses it’s difficult to make a choice, however if you like the scent of a particular variety try to get some hard root wood from it and turn the handle from this, my favourite rose variety is Papa Meilland, it should give a delightful rose scent to the coffee, though it may not be to everyone’s taste.

    Sandlewood, not as durable as the previous two but gives a strong aroma of tobacco and spice, haven’t tried it, however, looks interesting, no it won’t make the coffee taste like dirty sandles.

    The list goes on, and is limited only by your imagination.

    Leave a comment:


  • thundering_gerkins
    replied
    Originally posted by TampIt View Post
    Hi thundering_gerkins

    "I'll think you'll find any stainless steel can rust/ corrode if it's used in extreme environments": True, but humans do very poorly in almost every one of those environments, if they can even survive it.

    316 / 400 series: 316 is "relatively soft" which is why it can be machined easily & precisely. The 400's can achieve the same end result in a tamper at much greater material expense and manufacturing time. Assuming an environment of total abuse (e.g. medico's who do not look after op. theatre gear) the 400's would last longer. The 316 should "only" last a few hundred years of normal use (his words).

    "It seems that people believe 316 is the holy grail in stainless steel, and yes it's a great material, but not the only option.": I agree, but when he has over 100 tonnes of various stainless grades from 316 up and tells me he would use 316 as the best choice for my "price no object" work, I tend to listen... The end result is a spectacularly good tamper. Equal to the Pullman's (at a lot more cost).

    [ATTACH=CONFIG]5481[/ATTACH]

    Three Pullman handles, left and right are machined 316 Pullman Barista (now called Premium), centre is "rough polished and wiped with fingerprints to allow photo" local 316 prototype. All attempts by Curtin Business School's main video guy to photograph the final polished version failed (as the stainless guy said they would). All three still look new however they are a few hundred years short of their use by date I guess, unlike their mortal owner.

    TampIt

    It's great that you like your 316 tamper.

    If we look at tamper requirements, corrosion resistance isn't an issue so I can't see a huge advantage in using 316. Sure if you have stock of 316 use it.
    But 304 shouldn't be regarded as "low quality stainless" as it is very closely related to 316 and still very serviceable as a tamper material.

    Leave a comment:


  • TampIt
    replied
    Originally posted by thundering_gerkins View Post
    I'll think you'll find any stainless steel can rust/ corrode if it's used in extreme environments, also design can play a huge part in its service life.

    304 and 316 (Austenitic series) can be finished from a course finish to mirror, both being very hygienic.
    316 is higher in nickel than 304, which gives it a better corrosion resistance to finish ratio.

    I think the reason your "medical tool guy" prefers 400 series (presuming Martinsitic series) is that it can be hardend, although it offers less corrosion resistance.

    It seems that people believe 316 is the holy grail in stainless steel, and yes it's a great material, but not the only option.
    Hi thundering_gerkins

    "I'll think you'll find any stainless steel can rust/ corrode if it's used in extreme environments": True, but humans do very poorly in almost every one of those environments, if they can even survive it.

    316 / 400 series: 316 is "relatively soft" which is why it can be machined easily & precisely. The 400's can achieve the same end result in a tamper at much greater material expense and manufacturing time. Assuming an environment of total abuse (e.g. medico's who do not look after op. theatre gear) the 400's would last longer. The 316 should "only" last a few hundred years of normal use (his words).

    "It seems that people believe 316 is the holy grail in stainless steel, and yes it's a great material, but not the only option.": I agree, but when he has over 100 tonnes of various stainless grades from 316 up and tells me he would use 316 as the best choice for my "price no object" work, I tend to listen... The end result is a spectacularly good tamper. Equal to the Pullman's (at a lot more cost).

    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_1663 2.5 Pullmans cropped.jpg
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    Three Pullman handles, left and right are machined 316 Pullman Barista (now called Premium), centre is "rough polished and wiped with fingerprints to allow photo" local 316 prototype. All attempts by Curtin Business School's main video guy to photograph the final polished version failed (as the stainless guy said they would). All three still look new however they are a few hundred years short of their use by date I guess, unlike their mortal owner.

    TampIt

    Leave a comment:

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