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  • Electricity usage

    Simple straight forward question. Would a dual boiler machine use approximately twice as much electricity as a single HX? I currently have an NS Oscar and am looking to move up in the world at some point to something a little more polished and capable of pulling a better shot. With electricity prices sky rocketing and the fact i want my next machine to last a long time, i do want to keep running costs as low as possible.

    My thoughts would be that a HX setup would probably be working just as hard as a DB?

    Thoughts?

  • #2
    There couldn't be too much difference. The sum of both boiler's water capacity will probably be larger than your HX, but it won't be twice the electricity use. There are some DBs where you can independently switch off the steam boiler if you just want shots - that would help!

    I would suggest investing in some solar panels instead

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    • #3
      I would love solar but it's no longer worth it in QLD. I don't intend on staying in the place I live for longer than 5 years...

      I was initially thinking of a NS Musica because I could get one at a great price but as someone mentioned the difference between my Oscar and it wouldn't be worth it. Subsequently I've been looking at the Expobar Minore IV or the Office Leva, HX vs Db. I like the idea of the PID control but wasn't sure weather or not the dual boiler would run up electricity bill.

      I think i read here on CS that you can switch of the boiler on the minore however I think that would turn of the hot water tap?....I need that! lol

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      • #4
        It probably depends a bit on what kind of drinks you are wanting to make. If you are not too fussed about milk based drinks, a HX may not save you much energy as it is primarily heating water under to be used for steam. Water used to pull the shot is then drawn through the heat exchanger which is heated by the water for the steam. You don't have any control over where the energy is being used which you may have with a double boiler.

        If you are open to other suggestions, you may also want to check out a site sponsor for some 'off the grid' solutions.

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        • #5
          The Quick Mill QM67 has dual boilers, the steam boiler can be switched of if not required and it's a beautiful machine.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by b430m View Post
            The Quick Mill QM67 has dual boilers, the steam boiler can be switched of if not required and it's a beautiful machine.
            ....yes. it's a characteristic of pretty much every dual boiler machine I can think of- so there are a myriad of options.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Talk_Coffee View Post
              ....yes. it's a characteristic of pretty much every dual boiler machine I can think of- so there are a myriad of options.
              If this is the case. If i was to turn off the second boiler the machine would only be good for pulling shots? Steam and hot water tap would come from the second boiler correct?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by calaper View Post
                If this is the case. If i was to turn off the second boiler the machine would only be good for pulling shots? Steam and hot water tap would come from the second boiler correct?
                Yes it does.

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                • #9
                  To be honest...

                  A DB of decent quality and recent manufacture, is more suited to CSers who prefer a majority of either Espresso or Lungo drinks (black coffee only), as you can dial the brew temp in to extract the most of what is good, from what ever beans you use. You'd also need to have a pretty decent grinder to use in conjunction with the DB to achieve this though, along with consistently excellent technique application.

                  If coffee-milk drinks are going to be the majority, then a DB is not going to save you any money compared to an HX machine. It would be in the realms of Cents, not Dollars. If milk texturing isn't an absolute necessity, then you could opt for a Dual Purpose Single Boiler machine such as one of the Lelit models, a Silvia or more up-market options from VBM and other manufacturers. You could then use the machine to pull espresso, heat the milk on gas-top or in a microwave, and then serve up Flat Whites for those that want them. You might be able to save a few dollars in energy costs this way but nothing of significance. Once the Boiler(s) of any machine are up to temperature, the amount of energy to keep them there is quite small, and even smaller if you insulate the Boiler(s).

                  If you do the sums for all the various options out there, you will only end up saving a small amount but I guess that would be up to you to determine if that would be worthwhile.

                  Mal.

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                  • #10
                    Heat up time may be a factor. A DB or SB (single boiler) will generally be ready to go in 10 to 15 minutes whereas a HX will take 30 to 60. If you only have your machine on when you plan to use it, rather than just leaving it on all the time, a DB may use less power. I say "may" because a HX and a DB are still heating up roughly the same amount of metal and water but the DB is doing it faster because the heat path to the group head is more direct. So the difference might just come down to the the amount of heat radiated and convected into the kitchen during the heat up time which should favour the DB since the heat up time is shorter.

                    charlie

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                    • #11
                      Personally though, I believe selecting a DB machine for this reason alone is folly...

                      Mal.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by calaper View Post
                        however I think that would turn of the hot water tap?....I need that!
                        What for? :-D

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dimal View Post
                          Personally though, I believe selecting a DB machine for this reason alone is folly...

                          Mal.
                          Agreed!

                          charlie

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                          • #14
                            If you really want to save electricity, then you will need to turn the m/c off when you are not using it.
                            That means you will want a fast start up , so maybe something like the El Rocio dual boiler with its claimed 3 min heat up time (???) helped by its 3 PID's and separate group heaters !
                            Unfortunately you may have to go to Korea to buy one !
                            (https://www.caffemuseo.co.kr/shop/detai...g_num=9993)


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