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Best water for a home machine

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  • #31
    I use Reverse Osmosis for all internal uses. Near as I can see the 'don't use RO' idea has more to do with sensors needing ions than because it doesn't make good coffee - I had it mentioned after one of my posts and couldn't find anything that actually proves pure water isn't good for coffee.

    I had a portable RO unit to begin with - came with an extra membrane and lasted close to 4 years (I was single then) - and my under-sink one has been going great guns since I got it. Last I looked the ROI for the under-sink (which is easily removed and also simple to replace any of the 4 filters) was about 3c/litre. Figured that is a worthwhile investment in my good health.

    And the coffee is superb...

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    • #32
      A word of warning!!! The consumption of pure and/or RO water can lead to the wearing of alu-foil hats whilst standing on soapboxes and/or pedestals

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      • #33
        I had a tour of an industrial RO facility this week. I've that feeling of being followed ever since...

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        • #34
          Journeyman, Why?

          RO water has almost no minerals....

          In scott rao's book, he points out that you should avoid having NO minerals and that you should stick to certain amounts...

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          • #35
            And out come the peanut gallery to cast their aspersion with zero content relating to the thread.

            @TheLudicrousBean - First, 'almost no' is not the same thing as 'no' Also Rao does not explain WHY he thinks it is important to not have 'no minerals' - it's just an offhand comment when he is talking about water quality.
            Reverse osmosis: Removes more than 90% of TDS, hardness and alkalinity. Straight RO water is too pure for espresso, tea or coffee brewing. RO water should always be blended with mineral-rich carbon-filtered water or used in conjunction with a remineralizer
            But he also says that high TDS causes poor tasting coffee...
            To put it simply, the less "stuff" already dissolved in brewing water the more "stuff" the water will dissolve from the grounds. If TDS levels are too high water is a weaker solvent and will not extract enough solubles from the grounds.
            Now I am not sure how he defines 'straight' but the context of the section where he talks about this is that he is implying water that is 100% H2O, something no reasonably priced RO unit will deliver.

            And remineralisers are a common feature on RO systems - I have one on mine. What it means is you get the minerals that are known to be useful for the human body, not crap like chlorine, chloramines and fluoride. Try drinking pure water for a while and the tap water starts to smell and taste off. Anyone wanting to put that in their coffee is welcome to it - I prefer to taste only the coffee. Carbon filters might help with the chlorine but only RO and distilling remove fluoride.

            In spite of the comments implying I'm some kind of fruitcake, I'll stick with putting the best quality resources I can get into my body. Cleaning up the water is just one part of healthy living and at 3c/L it is a cheap way to help your body function optimally. And the coffee tastes GREAT - better than almost every café I have been to - and I'm a Melbourne guy, a city with some of the best coffee available.

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            • #36
              Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, you have yours and good on you for that.
              I believe tank water is the right way for me to enjoy coffee and treat all my coffee producing appliances (all twenty four of them).
              Always great to have such a selection to choose from!
              Cheers
              Mick.

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              • #37
                Tank water is (mostly) a great alternative. Unfortunately many people live in environments where tank water collection is closer to a concentration system for the various noxious chemicals released into our environment than it is to a source of pure water. If you're one of the lucky ones, good for you. But there are many who rely on blind faith in the media as arbiter for their opinions and who have little idea of the process of Science and so quote Authority as if it is the be-all and end-all of knowledge.

                You can tell them by their posts that target a poster instead of the subject. And they tend to run in packs, so you see the same culprits lining up to have a go one after another. Mob mentality? Or maybe fear of standing by themselves? Maybe it's just their belief that if lots of people say the same thing it must be right?

                Not sure, but it's common on forums.

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                • #38
                  Comments from the uneducated of any specific subject speciality, are just opinions. If you want to know exactly and factually what you should be doing, talk to a professional...

                  Mal.

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                  • #39
                    Generalising comments that put down others are less than useful, in spite of like-minded types 'Liking' them. Specifics would help make such comments more in keeping with the expressed wishes of the site owner. Comments failing to talk on the post subject and clearly aimed at a poster are hostile.

                    Professionals are often simply regurgitators of the dogma attached to their learning and many, if not most, advances come from those who specifically go against the orthodox views. As an example one might look at the expressed knowledge of the experts regarding Climate; only the most fanatical still claim the Earth is warming. The rest of the Scientific world involved in such is trying to find explanations for why it stopped warming right about the time all the doom&gloomers were telling us how bad things were getting.

                    So going to 'professionals' can often be less than useful, particularly in a field like coffee where not only are the results so personally variable, the field itself is still undergoing changes that often radically alter the accepted 'reality' of the professionals.

                    Also, one might perhaps ascertain the level of understanding, research and practical knowledge of anyone one wishes to denigrate posters before labelling them uneducated.

                    One might also either contribute to the subject or go find another thread.

                    Personally I prefer to make sure that what I put in my body does the least amount of harm - I don't go around making fun of those who blindly follow the mainstream and believe whatever they are told in the media, I just present my views, mostly with backup. I'd ask for sources but the 3 offensive posts have not actually contributed anything other than ridicule so clearly there will be none forthcoming.

                    It takes very little research at all to start finding the problems with fluoride, and only a little thought on the subject will have one realising that even if there is a justification for topical use, there is no such evidence for ingesting such a poison. And with just a bit more research one can easily find out that even if there IS topical usefulness, it cannot possibly have any effect that continues past the age of around 11 or 12. That's the SCIENCE behind the scenes rather than the mantra proclaimed by the mainstream and media types.

                    Anything short of a reverse osmosis system will not remove fluoride and it takes activated carbon to deal with the chloramines, added to water supplies because chlorine breaks down fairly quickly with sunlight or aeration - chloramines are added specifically to ensure the chemicals are still active when they reach your tap.

                    Those ridiculing my position may not care that they are ingesting such substances and allowing their family to do so - I do. I fail to see why that brings such content-free posts.

                    The one post that DID address my post sensibly I responded to with information taken from the same source quoted.

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                    • #40
                      Now... was that a soapbox or a pedestal?

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                      • #41
                        And... your new comments on global warming don't do your credibility any favours.

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                        • #42
                          I don’t take water for the chemicals in it but to quench my thirst and make my coffee and also to wash in.

                          I would rather drink water with the remnants of chlorine in it than to suffer from cholera, typhoid fever, dysentery or other water spread diseases. We are lucky in Australia where most of us have access to clean and healthy water and where the use of bottled water is not necessary.

                          I drink water straight from the tap. However I treat my coffee water to reduce the formation of scale.

                          Barry

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                          • #43
                            I know from personal experience that when I have taken my roasted beans from one locality to another, it has taken on a different character according to the quality of the water.....or so I think....

                            I think the answer to the original question is simple enough:

                            What is the "best" water for coffee: Answer: any potable water.

                            Because after that it just comes down to personal preference as to what anyone thinks they are tasting in their coffee, and that they think is significant enough that they may want to eliminate (or not).

                            There are really only 2 principle reasons for *conditioning* water before it goes in the coffee machine. One is to circumvent the formation of scale in the machine, and the other is so that particles dont enter the machine and cause a blockage somewhere, that will then require an intervention to clear. That is *for the machine*.

                            The other reasons for filtering so that flavours or odours dont assault our delicate sensitivities, are not to do with the machine byt for ourselves. Some people are more sensitive (or more likely to take notice) than others, and plain and simple, there are plenty of people for which all this stuff will go straight over their heads and who didnt notice, and dont care one way or another.

                            Going back then to the original question, if Pauly is in an area where there is a scale problem, he should be looking for something that either softens the water on the way into the machines reservoir, or a so called 'anti scaling" filter. these are two different approaches to the same end....no (or lessened) scale formation in machine. If the water is "good" on the scale front, it only copmes down to particle filtration OR, if Pauly is picky about odours and flavours from chlorine etc, then to look for some form of filtration that will take care of that.

                            Otherwise may I simply say in terms of a budget that will be low key (cost effective, cost convenient, whatever):
                            a) that the simple britta thing may be all that is needed (subject to Pauly individual needs/wants)
                            b) clean rainwater probably the very cheapest option or
                            c) whatever pauly wants to budget for himself.

                            For the rest of it, 1) Many people here resent being lectured by other anonymous people they never met in internet forums....waste of time and energy and 2) There is a facilty in this forum to "like" posts, and I believe they offer a convenient and "post efficient" way of agreeing with someoines idea which has already been posted, without having a litany of posts from different people all saying the same thing. Its there, its convenient, deal with it. Is this a coffee forum or a lecture forum? And that is the end of my lecture.

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                            • #44
                              Wow. This thread is spiralling a bit !! I'll let you know what I decide on. Cheers everyone.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Pauly404 View Post
                                Hi,

                                Can anyone recommend the best way to get quality water for a home machine?

                                I'm using bottled water and that's inconvenient and expensive.

                                Is there a small filter system (similar to Brita) that does a good job? I need a small system, not a plumbed in system.

                                Thanks all.
                                Paul
                                Any thread that mentions water has the potential to go into orbit, everyone is either an expert or has something to sell.

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