Re: Need a coffee machine
I understand where you are coming from FC, however this type of thinking has extended to things such as grinders where staff are not allowed to adjust the grind settings. I know of one such place where someone toyed with the grind setting and made the coffee extract at something like 10 seconds. After the boss found out, he stopped serving coffee from that machine until a coffee tech came out to "fix" it. This place has 4 machines, of which 3 are running at any one time during rush hour....this type of situation can be totally avoided.
Thank god the people I work for are serious about coffee. 2 roburs with different roasts, another spare grinder in case one goes under...and another machine ready to go if the main Cimbali decides to play dead too.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Guys youre getting hung up on details.
Whatever a manufacturer designs & builds into a machine to make it operate as he wants, is whatever it is. And the machine will behave as set up. A restrictor placed by the manufacturer is not a mod or a trick or a tweak, its part of their design and build, and its inside the machine where no business person in their right mind would ever go, or for that matter would even think or know to go there (did that make sense hehe?).
I can see perfectly where Curmudgeon is coming from. You good people in the CS forum look upon esp machines as projects and a hobby to recondition, rebuild, tune, fiddle with, love, discuss endlessly and derive great satisfaction from, away from your regular form of employment.
This is a totally separate issue from real life business situations where any equipment needs to operate as close to properly as possible straight up, without the need for example, for people to go delving into the design and build of a machine and start rejigging the manufacturers design to try and "improve" it.
Tweaking on the other hand is a minor issue, things you can do with a screwdriver in a few seconds like turning a water pressure adjusting screw or adjusting a sirai switch. Tweaking only gives minor results, not usually enough to stop for example, well known "coffee burner" models from continuing to burn the coffee.
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I too would like to volunteer the services of my company to Joseph27 in his search for a commercial coffee machine. Our Diadema imports are built in the factory to our own "signature" specifications and we dont need to "trick them up" to make them operate properly. They are also very reliable in service over long periods.
Our "Signature" specifications have been developed over a six year history with the same manufacturer, and where we are lucky to be dealing with a manufacturer that takes all our feedback and requests into consideration when building the models we order for our market....and, our full commercial machines dont as far as I am aware, require a cooling flush of any significance if at all.
Regardz,
FC.
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PS for your information, its possible most of you wouldnt know that one manufacturer did at one time, manufacture some of their models with the cabablity to adjust the temperature of their brewing water with the simple turn of an adjuster screw.
This resulted in a service / warranty nightmare where the number of callouts to put mal-adjusted / "tricked" machines right again skyrocketed. This quickly resulted in this kind of option being discontinued.
My company will not trade in well known coffee burner models as we are not interested (from a straight business point of view) in wasting valuable time on them.
FC.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
I have programmed two volumetric buttons (well you wouldnt use them to make coffee
) for flushing. One is 120 ml which is used from about 8 minutes of idle or greater and the other is 60 ml for 3 to 8 minutes.....
Generally one shot of the 120 ml does the job but after standing all night I sometimes need to give it a little more (use the manual button for about 30 ml additional). That is running at a boiler pressure of 1.1 Bar. Higher pressures require slightly longer flushes.
E61 groups generally require less flushing .... but I think 120 ml for this style of group is quite acceptable....
Will be interesting to see what your machine needs.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
150mL flush sounds large....but wed be around the same if not closer to the 250mL mark. Ill measure next time. When I say idle...I mean maybe like the best part of 5 minutes.Originally posted by JavaB link=1177547302/0#11 date=1177596658I can leave mine on idle for hours.... say overnight.... and all it takes is a maximum of 150 ml flush..... generally 120 ml during the day between shots more than 10 minutes apart.... which isnt bad for a machine of its design.
So yep, they might have tuned yours for maximum throughput....
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Re: Need a coffee machine
I can leave mine on idle for hours.... say overnight.... and all it takes is a maximum of 150 ml flush..... generally 120 ml during the day between shots more than 10 minutes apart.... which isnt bad for a machine of its design.
So yep, they might have tuned yours for maximum throughput....
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Re: Need a coffee machine
I see...Id like to tinker with the Cimbalis at work more. I think they may have been "tricked down" purely because of the volume we do. I want to see a 0.6mm gicleur on one machine and see the difference.
I think we have our pump set to something like 1.2 bar...If left idle, the machine needs a huge flush. Cant kill a Cimbali..thats for sure.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Wushoes,
The La Cimbali have flow restrictors.... the standard size being 0.8mm. They are fitted inside a union between the volumetric doser and the group (about half way along the pipe (together with the group filter)....
So if they arent there the machine has been "tricked up"
--- or should that be "tricked down"
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Re: Need a coffee machine
What about adding restrictors to slow the ramp up of pressure on say...a Cimbali? The Cimbalis at work could definately use them. You learn to work with it though. Some blends work better with a slow ramp up....but requires a finer grind than a machine with no restrictors fitted (requiring a coarser grind - counterintuitive I know).
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Good point but I should clarify I was writing solely with regard to full size commercial equipment (ie specific to the topic) where one of the simplest and least likely adjustments that might ever need to be made would be to rest something like the pump pressure.Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1177547302/0#5 date=1177586053:
...and those of us who bust our buns supplying support, service and knowing the machines that we sell inside out will try not to take that as a blatant insult...Might I suggest its most important to purchase from someone who knows his/her stuff and will be there when needed- be he importer or not....>
Oh, and by the way, my tweaked ECM Veneziano works even better than it did in standard condition... And what about the domestic machines I receive with pump pressures "set" at 13.5 bar?? Leave those in standard condition as well?? Geez..
Hope that clears the air, there was no direspect intended.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Every machine can benefit from a little "tricking out"...whether it be a CMA machine or LM. Little tweaks here and there may make a significant difference in what is in the cup.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Originally posted by Curmudgeon link=1177547302/0#4 date=1177583145Suggest you take your enquiry off site and go direct to the site sponsors listed on the LHS of the page & settle on something that works well as set up in standard condition without needing to be modified away from the factory settings or from the individual importers signature settings which will be standard across his range. See if you can find a site sponsor that is the direct importer instead of a middle man, and who is therefore the real person or business carrying the responsibility for guaranteeing his imports are suitable for the market or up to the task.
My 7 dollars worth.
:
...and those of us who bust our buns supplying support, service and knowing the machines that we sell inside out will try not to take that as a blatant insult...Might I suggest its most important to purchase from someone who knows his/her stuff and will be there when needed- be he importer or not....>
Oh, and by the way, my tweaked ECM Veneziano works even better than it did in standard condition... And what about the domestic machines I receive with pump pressures "set" at 13.5 bar?? Leave those in standard condition as well?? Geez..
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Re: Need a coffee machine
I am not a fan of machines that are individually "tricked up" or customised and therefore set up differently to standard. It makes it hard for non aligned individuals in business relying on all and sundry service providers.
I like the KISS principle and espresso machines dont need to be fancy either in design or in brand name to do their job well despite all the usual snob stuff that gets written up in sundry internet sites.
Suggest you take your enquiry off site and go direct to the site sponsors listed on the LHS of the page & settle on something that works well as set up in standard condition without needing to be modified away from the factory settings or from the individual importers signature settings which will be standard across his range. See if you can find a site sponsor that is the direct importer instead of a middle man, and who is therefore the real person or business carrying the responsibility for guaranteeing his imports are suitable for the market or up to the task.
My 7 dollars worth.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Hi Joseph,
All of those machines are made by CMA and individual models will vary in performance. Personally, Im not at all a fan of the San Marino Lisa, many of which seem to run hot and burn the quality. We had a Wega Polaris on the bench last year that performed very nicely after we tricked it up.
If you are in Melbourne, feel free to drop by and visit us and Ill be able to walk you through the machines that we can provide, including our custom-made BFC machine that is designed with the CMA market in mind.
Cheers,
Luca
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Joseph,
Welcome to CoffeeSnobs.
Yep Thundergod is spot on with his advice. Talk to the site sponsors and they will give you great "up front" advice and if you purchase from them you will also get fantastic on-going support.
I cant provide any advice on the models you mention but Im sure some other members will be able to help you from an "end user" prospective.
Good luck with your cafe by the way.
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Re: Need a coffee machine
Welcome to Cofffee Snobs Joseph.
You wont do a better deal for price and after sales service than the sponsors you see in the list on the left .
They can talk budget with you, but it would be a good start to know where you are located.
Dont forget youll need a very good grinder to do justice to the coffee and machine.
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