Hello guys !
Had the same problem with VST 20g basket for my Breville 920 coffee machine !
I believe one of the really big issues is the breville grinder too!
But i have the same problem , with dose 21g i can pull an ok shot for 23 sec include preinfusion that is 5 sec .
After 24 sec , just water coming through the pf .
I usually try different coffees to see which one i like more .
I have found that if you try to get a perfect shot the taste is so much different that you can drink it without sugar .
Btw for me is very hard to have coffee without sugar :-)
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Problems dialling in VST basket please help
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A little more.
+1 on the shower-screen head room issue,
on some coffee machines using 15 grams in VST-15g may be optimum and 16 grams will be too much,
on others with just 1 mm more more shower-screen headroom you may be best with 16 grams in VST-15g i.e. +1 gram up-dose.
This is all inside the optimum range that VST recommmends i.e + or - 1.0 gram.
Finally I also think that VST basket probably 'demands' a better grinder than many other double baskets but having a better grinder is always beneficial with any basket, it is money well spent.
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Just to add a couple of things I recently discovered with my VST 15g double basket.
I found that using a perfectly flat-bottom tamper that is >58 mm works best with VST (and perhaps others too?) double baskets.
My old trusty 58 mm tamper has a small bump in the middle so its no flat and it has too much free-play inside the basket.
This seems to make a noticeable difference to VST and I suspect some other baskets.
So I bought a 58.5 mm tamper Pesado, which works a lot like engine piston inside VST basket and it makes a noticeable difference to the end result as well as makes the tamp easily repeatable due to absence of any side-to-side free-play when applying tamping pressure (typically only medium strength is required with a good grinder). Just take it out slowly and gently after the tamp down, as the suction may disturb the puck!
With dosing what I discovered that VST when dosed correctly (15-16 gram in VST-15g), it has a lot of head-room above the puck and it gets very wet after extraction is done. It also does not come out very easily and often crumbles at the edges when you knock it out.
This is just what it is, and I had to learn not to worry about it and only focus on the pour and final taste, not to focus on the puck's looks after the extraction.
This is probably very different technique to other double baskets on the market, I dont know, but not for VST.
Once these rules are followed, it produces very good results.
Clearly many people here feel the complexity is not justified, which is OK, each to their own.
But, if I am not mistaken, 2012-2013-2014-2015-2016 WBC were won using VST 20 gram baskets so there must be something good about them when used as recommended.
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Problems dialling in VST basket please help
Depends on the screen distance.
My 16gr basket take nicely 18.5gr, with older coffees up to 19, more that it's the 20gr basket.
What's useless for me is the VST 14gr, it takes at most 16gr and requires extreme fine grinding, really a pain to dial in.
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Just do what you want to do makfelix. If you want to replicate your cafe's equipment, sure pick up a 20g. But honestly, having another basket to put a 19g underdose instead of a 19g overdose - not worth the cost of entry.
I bought a 20g that I could fit in my portafilter (22g too big) and overdose to 21g to split the shot. Generally I use my 18g basket at 17g dose for a double shot flat white. To me, for my purposes, the 4g difference justified the purchase. If you reckon you have a good reason for it, go for it.
Slightly related - There's a lot of people who seem to just buy whatever others buy without working it through. Drives me crazy to read about it. I bought VSTs nearly 12 months after I bought my first espresso machine, even though I knew I intended to purchase eventually. Why? Cause I wanted to get my skills up first. Why did I get the baskets in the end anyway? So I could work to set recipes and have a fitted tamper. I had also worked with VSTs in a cafe over summer and was satisfied they were an improvement for me.
My advice for anyone wanting to buy VSTs is to pull some shots with your local site sponsor, just to take the mystical shine off before purchasing.
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Yep, buy one of these Precision filter basket 58mm- Espresso parts | Talk Coffee 18 to 21 gram, you won't look back.Originally posted by makfelix View PostI currently have a 18g VST basket, and I'm toying with the idea of getting a larger 20g or 22g. I must admit this is after talking to a number of cafes which uses 21.5g or so in their basket, and I'm trying to replicate what they do. I know that commercial machines will be different to my Rocket V3.
Couple of conflicting points which I have come across:
- I know that VST recommends dosage +/- 1g of the recommend dosage.
- However, I've read quite a few number of people who have exceeded this, including cafes. For example, they would pack 21.5g into a 20g VST basket.
- I've also read that particular doses work better in particular baskets (eg. 19g works better in the 20g basket than the 18g basket)
Can someone point me in the right direction and stop me from buying all these different baskets?
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I currently have a 18g VST basket, and I'm toying with the idea of getting a larger 20g or 22g. I must admit this is after talking to a number of cafes which uses 21.5g or so in their basket, and I'm trying to replicate what they do. I know that commercial machines will be different to my Rocket V3.
Couple of conflicting points which I have come across:
- I know that VST recommends dosage +/- 1g of the recommend dosage.
- However, I've read quite a few number of people who have exceeded this, including cafes. For example, they would pack 21.5g into a 20g VST basket.
- I've also read that particular doses work better in particular baskets (eg. 19g works better in the 20g basket than the 18g basket)
Can someone point me in the right direction and stop me from buying all these different baskets?
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That is a good and valid point Yelta..
I personally like the results from my vst baskets and they did originally cause a bit of a headache. Never have trouble using them consistently anymore but as you said, for a beginner or someone who doesn't have the time to play around with the parameters of their setup, perhaps go for other reputable easy to use baskets mentioned in this thread or you'll just get angry at wasted coffee.
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I think the message to novices is that excellent, easier to use baskets, are available at a much lower price than VST.
I can get good shots from the VST's as well, however much less stuffing around with the other baskets I mentioned.
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Just use the baskets you like. *shrug* I like my VSTs, I make consistently good coffee with them.
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[QUOTE=evro50;578953]Am I the only one that thinks VST's are a overhyped piece of equipment? I have several VST baskets which I stupidly splurged on when I first got into my home setup thinking it would deliver the best results, after all of which I've gone back to the standard LM baskets a long time ago. I'm yet to be convinced the VST's make much of a difference, especially in milk based drinks.
/QUOTE]
No argument from me Evro, tried the VST's many moons ago, they quickly found their way into my drawer of unused bits and pieces.
Like you, have pulled them out a number of times, thinking perhaps I had missed something, each trial only served to convince me that they were only a well promoted piece of equipment that failed to deliver.
They now languish in the bottom drawer, I now use my EP or LM baskets exclusively, and I might add with great success.
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Am I the only one that thinks VST's are a overhyped piece of equipment? I have several VST baskets which I stupidly splurged on when I first got into my home setup thinking it would deliver the best results, after all of which I've gone back to the standard LM baskets a long time ago. I'm yet to be convinced the VST's make much of a difference, especially in milk based drinks.
Some of the posts above have convinced me to dust them off and give them another go this weekend perhaps I was too hasty, will give the wife a couple of blind tests to get rid of the placebo effect
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G'day nzgreenbeanOriginally posted by nzgreenbean View PostThanks readeral for all the advice,
I do have the 20 g basket which I use split.
now I did another roast and let it go into 2nd crack before pulling it, though only letting it go for about 10 to seconds in the Behmor, my usual process is to remove the basket from the Behmor and take it outside for faster cooling, as I exited the house the beans could still be heard in 2nd crack and stopping as the cool air got to them. less than 20 seconds in 2nd crack, the beans colour looks great much darker. I was eager to try them so I let the beans sit only half an hour before having a flat white in whole milk - very nice taste. Tomorrow Ill try an espresso after the beans have sat a while.
I get your point too, in comparison my BSG 820 takes 2 shots at 10.6 seconds do get the dose I'm using about 22 g. I still have some experimenting to do with more appropriate weight matching the basket. I though I would enjoy some coffee before experimenting again, as the pour is good = 27 seconds for just over 40 mils of beverage.
Just to throw a little more balance into this thread -
1) To those who think dark roasts are preferable - that is not the only way... Personally, I prefer light roasts. Oh, and I cannot abide even the slightest hint of burnt, baked or wood (or, for TC, "wheatgrass").
2) So far no one has mentioned the "roasts are best between 4 and 11 days" concept. That does not apply to most lighter roasts. Some light ones I use do not even come on stream until three to six weeks. If it still smells green - it is! If you are roasting light, they are possibly still underdeveloped (aged) which will throw your results out. Of course, if you are an "amount of crema" freak, the older the roast the less the quantity of crema. When any roast is fully developed, the crema quality (flavour) will be at its best for that roast.
3) Your grinder should be able to handle the VST easily. So many CSrs seem to think they won't deliver a good cuppa (too much "S" at work I think). I have a variety of friends with Breville Smartgrinders and SB 480's. They should work well with the VST IF you can grind fine enough to suit the pour. I lived with a pair of 480's for a couple of years - they coped well enough. I tried a whole bunch of other grinders and ended up with two Mahlkonig Vario gen2's - they were the only step up until well over the $A2500 (each) mark. BTW - the gen3 is now out, so my grinders are not "bleeding edge" anymore.
4) To the whole overdosing thing - I have owned two 6910's and a 7000. They only need to be overdosed if the roast is poor (including too young or too dark etc.), the grind is too coarse, the tamper has a curved base or the machine setup is wrong. The reason for that particular myth seems to have more to do with the fact that a 6910 / 7000 will handle overdosing with more aplomb than a lot of other machines (including some commercial ones which are a lot more expensive). To get the best out of a VST, the VST manufacturer recommends dosing within 1g of the rated size. Once all the usual suspects are dealt with, my own experience is that a very slight overdose (i.e. 15.4g in the 15) gets the best result. Every time a friend does a massive overdose in the VST I have made a better coffee using "close to the standard dose" using their gear.
5) Scales accurate to within 0.1g are essential to setup a VST with minimal pain. Otherwise you are literally "shooting in the dark" as each basket's dose will be different enough to make any diagnostics irrelevant.
Have fun with your journey...
TampIt
PS I mainly use a VST single dosed to 7.2g. When you optimise a VST the extra flavour means that you do not need mega doses anyway.Last edited by TampIt; 7 May 2016, 12:36 AM.
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Thanks readeral for all the advice,
I do have the 20 g basket which I use split.
now I did another roast and let it go into 2nd crack before pulling it, though only letting it go for about 10 to seconds in the Behmor, my usual process is to remove the basket from the Behmor and take it outside for faster cooling, as I exited the house the beans could still be heard in 2nd crack and stopping as the cool air got to them. less than 20 seconds in 2nd crack, the beans colour looks great much darker. I was eager to try them so I let the beans sit only half an hour before having a flat white in whole milk - very nice taste. Tomorrow Ill try an espresso after the beans have sat a while.
I get your point too, in comparison my BSG 820 takes 2 shots at 10.6 seconds do get the dose I'm using about 22 g. I still have some experimenting to do with more appropriate weight matching the basket. I though I would enjoy some coffee before experimenting again, as the pour is good = 27 seconds for just over 40 mils of beverage.
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Thanks Magic Matt,
Ive just recently bought two VST 15 and 20 g so Ill stick with these see how it all works out, although the pour is greatly improved and I'm only at day two so I cant complain and I'm sure it will get better from here
especially after tuning into this forum a great bunch and a wealth of shared knowledge.
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