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AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

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  • AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

    Hello altogether,

    I am new in this forum and seeking for a new machine as I discovered yesterday that my superautomatic has an alluminium thermoblock.

    I discovered it here
    Here I also hear about the Rancilio Miss Silvia for the first time and I like it.

    Reading some postings I come across the temperature issues with boilers, recovery times, .... and that now destroys my hopes of having found a good machine for my needs.

    Where I am now:
    -I have a Saeco Incanto and I am satisfied with the coffee it makes. I will not use it any more because I dont like to intoxicate myself consciously with alluminium.

    -I drink a latte or capuccino approximately every 1-2 hour when I make a break in my office. I switch on the machine, make the coffee and switch it off afterwards.

    -I am a keen energy saver and absolutely despise leaving on a machine the whole day just for the right temperature

    -I am feed up with machines that break down after warranty. I want something now with longievity

    -The Sunbeam 6910 is not an option because it has a thermoblock which is made out of stainless stee lined alluminium (first term studying engineering you learn that all these material combinations are prime candidates for corrosion) and made by a company that focuses on sales growth rather than product longuevity.

    My impression is now that all the good machines are not good for me because they require a long time to heat up and the common domestic crap is no good because of the crappy components.

    Am I right with this or is there (hopefully) something out there that combines professional quality with domestic functionality.

    Thanks in advance for any help

    Edward

    N.B.
    Modified HTTP link to remove apparent commercial nature of same.
    Mal.

  • #2
    Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

    Hi Edward,

    Welcome to coffeesnobs. I see your dilemma about wanting to save power but the issue is you really need time for things to heat up for when you use it. The issue is not necessarily the heat up time of the boiler as much as it is getting heat into the group and subsequently the portafilter etc. If you want longevity the components are going to be thicker metal anyway one would assume so may take longer to get up to temp but will maintain that heat. I am sure someone here will throw out some calculations of how much energy you will use by turning it on and off in order for it to get the boiler and components up to temp versus leaving it on so it maintains temp.

    So I am not much use to you most likely but cant see too many ways around leaving it on if you want something that will last you. I will keep well away from the sunbeam debate as that has been trashed around plenty but people who have the EM6910 like it and so far has been found to be reliable.

    Brett

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

      Hi Edward,

      Worry not, a well used Silvia will make a much better coffee than a superauto anytime, any day...They just need a routine....and we CSers are good at that!

      Bite the bullet and grab one- you wont be sorry. Make sure that your grinder is the strongest part of the coffee equation as well....

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

        Gday Edward,

        Is the Latte imperative??

        If not, why not try using a plunger, you only need to boil a kettle as you need it,

        and if you have fresh beans and a fair grinder you can make great coffee, just add milk!

        only my thoughts, but it may be your answer.

        Craig.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

          Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1181797670/0#2 date=1181801272
          Hi Edward,

          Worry not, a well used Silvia will make a much better coffee than a superauto anytime, any day...They just need a routine....and we CSers are good at that!
          Relief
          that is what I was hoping for. For me as a newbie it is hard to judge what expectations you guys have when discussing coffee quality. That is why I dropped the line that I am satisfied with my superauto quality for the office. I will sure have a good routine with the amount of coffee I drink.
          And for the super duper quality coffee after dinner I dont mind switching it on beforehand.

          The threads just read as if your coffee is undrinkable if you dont have the exact temperature.

          Thanks 2muchcoffeeman and Coffeechaser

          All I now need to find is a good offer for machine and grinder

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

            Originally posted by coastal coffee link=1181797670/0#3 date=1181801607
            Gday Edward,

            Is the Latte imperative??

            If not, why not try using a plunger, you only need to boil a kettle as you need it,

            and if you have fresh beans and a fair grinder you can make great coffee, just add milk!

            only my thoughts, but it may be your answer.

            Craig.

            Hi Craig,

            Just came back from Europe and had lots of plunger coffee (okay maybe not fresh ground). I realised how "snobby" I have become in regards to coffee (moving from Africa to Europe 20 years ago I was happy with NESCAFE!!!).
            I will give it a go with fresh ground coffee and see if I can live with it for the office but I will definitely also go for an espresso machine.

            Cheers,
            Edward

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

              The sunbeam takes a good 3 minutes to start up no boiler to heat up....but youll have a cold portafilter...just flush the group with the handle in for a bit and youre all ready to rock n roll.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                Originally posted by Coffeechaser link=1181797670/0#1 date=1181801234
                Hi Edward,

                Welcome to coffeesnobs. I see your dilemma about wanting to save power but the issue is you really need time for things to heat up for when you use it. The issue is not necessarily the heat up time of the boiler as much as it is getting heat into the group and subsequently the portafilter etc.

                Brett
                Where can I find methods to get the untis quickly on temperature? I am a thermodynamic engineer with the special field steam and gas turbines so heat, heat exchange processes and thermal conductivity is all too familiar with me.
                Just by driving to the post office now I thought of several energy efficient ways of keeping something small like a Silvia on constant temperature.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                  Originally posted by Wushoes link=1181797670/0#6 date=1181803268
                  The sunbeam takes a good 3 minutes to start up no boiler to heat up....but youll have a cold portafilter...just flush the group with the handle in for a bit and youre all ready to rock n roll.
                  My friend has got one and he is really satisfied with it.
                  I just dont want to consider it at the moment because I have had enough of repairs. Have a look at http://www.coffeeco.com.au/articles/sunbeam.html. It shows you the 6900 open.
                  The last time I had to give my machine away for repairs it took 4 weeks to get it back and I dont want this to happen to me again.

                  Then the warranty is one year on the thermoblock and as I mentioned earlier this material combination will not last 10 years. I dont even give it 5 years because of the thermal stress that comes with quick temperature differences and the corrosion that comes with electricity involved. Have a look at the pictures of the Gaggia boiler on coffeco.com and you will have an idea how the 6910 boiler will look when the steel lining is cracked and water creeps through to the alluminium part.
                  Take two different kind of metal and heat them up and you will have a process that destroys both materials.

                  From my past experience, the pictures on coffeco.com.au and my general knowledge about machines take my advice and sell your 6910 before your warranty expires. Buy a new one with new warranty and factor the replacement costs in your overall coffee machine costs.

                  Sorry that I cant be more optimistic about 6910 longuevity. Hope that I am wrong this time.

                  Edward

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                    Ive learnt more about corrosion in engineering than you can poke the proverbial stick at.

                    Whilst I agree in theory about most of the things you say, Id probably take a closer look at this later after my exams are done and dusted....maybe even consult the Doctor who took my materials eng. who specialises in corrosion.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                      Originally posted by Wushoes link=1181797670/0#9 date=1181811575
                      Ive learnt more about corrosion in engineering than you can poke the proverbial stick at.

                      Whilst I agree in theory about most of the things you say, Id probably take a closer look at this later after my exams are done and dusted....maybe even consult the Doctor who took my materials eng. who specialises in corrosion.
                      I for one have learnt something - I had no idea that engineering was corrosive! ;D

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                        Originally posted by Wushoes link=1181797670/0#9 date=1181811575
                        Ive learnt more about corrosion in engineering than you can poke the proverbial stick at.

                        Whilst I agree in theory about most of the things you say, Id probably take a closer look at this later after my exams are done and dusted....maybe even consult the Doctor who took my materials eng. who specialises in corrosion.
                        I would be very interested in this. My expertise is more the thermal stress related fatigue that occurs if you bond two different metals together and let them go up and down the temperature ladder.

                        The annoying thing for me is why they dont simply just use one material that is not alluminium. Lining an alluminium boiler with stainless stell is definitely not cheaper than just producing a what ever metal boiler.

                        Why do they build a grinder that looks sturdy and then on key parts they use plastic and apply designs that will create local stress and eventually brake.

                        I look at the inside of a professional machine and I see simple parts, simply bolted together, everything exchangeable and from a technical point of view stone age so dirt cheap in production. This is why I started this post: Why isnt anybody making a simple domestic machine by simply leaving away all complex design and manufacturing techniques that promote a timed breakdown.

                        Well we are both not going to solve this and I like the 6910 also. If not for me now knowing what is in these domestic machines I would have got one today. I had a wonderful 6910 produced espresso two days ago that I liked so much that I went on the internet and started my research. Now I am at a point that I dont want it any more and know that I have to fork out $400 more to get what suits my mindset.

                        All the best with your exams.

                        Edward

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                          Hi Edward if you drink a coffee every one to two hours then I doubt turning the machine off will save heaps of energy anyhow. once silvia is warmed up it cycles for probably 30 seconds every 10 min (I havnt actually timed it) If your really concerned you could insulate the boiler. This would probably save more energy then turning the machine on and off 4-5 times a day.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                            on temp surfing with the silvia. I dont think temp surfing makes a huge difference with milk based drinks although it depends on the roast. Its really more critical if your drinking espresso. regardless it will always be better then the super auto.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: AAARRRGGG! What machine is good for me?????

                              Originally posted by muppet_man67 link=1181797670/0#12 date=1181815936
                              Hi Edward if you drink a coffee every one to two hours then I doubt turning the machine off will save heaps of energy anyhow. once silvia is warmed up it cycles for probably 30 seconds every 10 min (I havnt actually timed it) If your really concerned you could insulate the boiler. This would probably save more energy then turning the machine on and off 4-5 times a day.
                              This is what came to my mind when I drove to the post office. Insulating the entire machine with a removable insulation would be the easiest way. I just thought I wait till I can see a Silvia face to face and have a look if this might affect any other components. That is why I asked if there is a place to discuss these issues.

                              Edward

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