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Wall sockets with built in timers - Preferences / opinions

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  • #31
    Originally posted by dmz View Post
    While you could use it that way, that's not really the intention. Every network device has a MAC address that's globally unique. When requesting an IP address via DHCP, the device (e.g., WeMo switch) identifies itself with its MAC address. When the router receives the DHCP request, it looks in its table of DHCP reservations (by MAC address) to see if there is a matching entry. If so, it responds with that IP address. If not, it just gives out a random address from its configured pool/range.

    If you set a DHCP reservation, you don't have to do anything at all on the WeMo switch. It doesn't know the difference. It asks for an IP, and it gets an IP. It's completely unaware that it always gets the same one.

    Hopefully I haven't gone too far down the DHCP rabbit hole.
    Now I remember why I dropped networks for philosophy of mathematics at uni 🤣

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    • #32
      Matt, just so there is no confusion, DMZ and I are talking about the same thing. On my my router it is called 'manually allocated' and the guide called it 'manually allocated fixed IP', meaning I allocate an IP on the router to this devices MAC and the two will evermore be linked. My apologies if my poor terminology is confusing people here. To the best of my knowledge Wemos can't create a fixed IP.

      By Herzog's post you may find your wemo and app works perfectly and don't need to do anything Would be nice if that is the case.

      What surprise me is these things are communicating on and off all the time (literally checked just now and they were) though total data for the day averages 220 to 280kb.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 338 View Post
        Matt, just so there is no confusion, DMZ and I are talking about the same thing. On my my router it is called 'manually allocated' and the guide called it 'manually allocated fixed IP', meaning I allocate an IP on the router to this devices MAC and the two will evermore be linked. My apologies if my poor terminology is confusing people here. To the best of my knowledge Wemos can't create a fixed IP.

        By Herzog's post you may find your wemo and app works perfectly and don't need to do anything Would be nice if that is the case.

        What surprise me is these things are communicating on and off all the time (literally checked just now and they were) though total data for the day averages 220 to 280kb.
        It's frustrating that most consumer routers try to dumb it down, but in the end just confuse things by using non-standard terminology.

        As for the regular communication, I believe the WeMo's continually "phone home" and stay registered with a central server. And that the remote access works through that central server.

        I don't have one right now, but I suspect that when controlling it locally, it responds quickly, but when you're outside of your home wifi, it probably has a bit of lag in the time it takes to register a command.

        I may pick one up and then I'll have a better idea of how it works. (I was looking at them, and that's how I ended up in this thread.)

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        • #34
          DMZ, I have no idea how they work but if you are buying a wemo to test lag I can save you $50. Just tested now by turning wifi off on my phone then activating a wemo via the app (detailing the process in case you see another way it communicated). Wemo responded within 1 second, about the same as I could discern when operating via wifi. You may be right about it working through a central server, explains the ongoing communication.

          You are right about non standard terminology being confusing, I changed from a Draytek to an Asus router and both used very different terminology. It made me smile reading your screen name, that is one which I thought computer people had misappropriated, using it incorrectly and confusingly. In military terms it means no personnel, installations, equipment in that zone and the zone doesn't belong to either party. Turns out with regard to networking it means that zone does belong to the LAN and they view it as acceptable to put some lesser protection there! Who would have known!


          PS Matt, still stand by my earlier suggestion to make Wemos work, just use your router etc to apply what I now call 'DHCP reserved addresses' to each Wemo, makes life far more pleasant. Let us know if that works for you.
          Last edited by 338; 19 July 2017, 08:07 PM. Reason: to add PS

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          • #35
            Originally posted by dmz View Post
            As for the regular communication, I believe the WeMo's continually "phone home" and stay registered with a central server. And that the remote access works through that central server.
            You're correct in that the Wemo cloud servers are what allows you to control your switch when you're remote.

            However, for day to day timer based operation, there's no internet dependence. Once you have programmed a schedule into a switch, the switch will run to the schedule even when your internet is completely offline for whatever reason.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by tampinator View Post
              In the market for a wall socket with built in timer for my heat exchanger and was hoping to get some advice on what to look for, potential risks to my machine etc..
              Just back to the original post on this because I am looking for a timer switch but to replace the GPO - not plug in, as this thread seems to have focused on. I have an ECM that does not automatically switch off if I forget about it.

              I do have a timer switch (from Aldi) that does a countdown, but it was bulky and bench space is at a premium. Plus you can't see the display because the GPO is too close to the coffee machine - and there is a sequence of 3 buttons you have to hit to activate it. In other words, I don't like it.

              I have hunted around and places like Bunnings stopped stocking items like this, but I did find this: Envirotouch - Products

              The TT-ET3L is the one I am now using. I bought on e-Bay for about $55 but it's out of stock now. It appears to be in-stock at Schnapp (for a lot more $)

              You can select four pre-programmed times from 15 to 120 minutes. An hour works for me, so I don't leave the machine on for hours. In general it does the job....but at the three minute mark, it gives you a warning by flashing the power off and on twice. I'm not keen on that because it doesn't do much for the circuit boards and relays in the machine. It's not an issue if I remember to turn the machine off, but then I wouldn't need this switch!

              I have contacted the distributor to see if anything can be done, but does anyone know of something similar?

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              • #37
                Replacing the GPO is a job for a licensed electrician and, unless you find something like a CBUS-level of reliability, potentially problematic in the long term.
                Why don't you look at a smart plug - something like this: https://www.tp-link.com/au/products/list-5258.html
                They're easy to set up, have a great deal of flexibility in terms of setting up multiple schedules, can be integrated with smart speakers so you can ask Google Home or Alexa to turn on/off the coffee machine and you can also turn them on/off from your phone wherever you are. So, if you ever feel like having a coffee when you leave work and come home, you can turn on the machine so it's nice and hot by the time you walk thru the door.

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                • #38
                  There are switches available that are hardwired in. They could be mounted inside your coffee machine.
                  No idea of reliability as I don't have one.

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                  • #39
                    How much are you willing to spend? There are a couple of options. You could get a Z-wave in wall relay (~$100) that your electrician can install to switch the power point. You'll need a controller compatible with the switch, they can be full blown stand alone units that will do your whole house and can run over $1500, or they can be as simple as a USB stick and some software (I think <$100). These you can then control with an app. You can also have your electrician replace your power point with one with an extra switch in it (get a bell press mechanism, not latching but spring return), and that switch can be wired into the relay directly and you can program it to run for 1 or 2 hours when you press the button (and turn off again if you press it within that time etc). I plan to do most of my house with Z-wave in the not-too-distant future.

                    The other option, which I haven't researched more than hearing about it a couple of months ago and 5min googling now, is Clipsal Iconic Bluetooth switch mechanisms and their ControlLink app. It works the same as the Z-wave above, except the extra such in the power point and the relay are combined into one. I think you don't need a seperate mastery controller for this either, you just set it up through the app. Worth investigating.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                      The other option, which I haven't researched more than hearing about it a couple of months ago and 5min googling now, is Clipsal Iconic Bluetooth switch mechanisms and their ControlLink app. It works the same as the Z-wave above, except the extra such in the power point and the relay are combined into one. I think you don't need a seperate mastery controller for this either, you just set it up through the app. Worth investigating.
                      Thanks for this - it looks like the way to go. I had seen references to the mechanisms in my Google searches, but the information was a little vague. The first few things I looked at focussed on the look not the function, but after a bit more reading, it looks like an interesting system that could easily be retrofitted into a home.

                      I suspect it will be just a tad more high quality than the one I have installed.

                      Interestingly the electricians I have had doing work in the house recently did not know about it and neither did the electrical outlet. They only knew about the industrial switches, so I will have to ask specific questions. If I find a material cost, I will post. The electrician’s margins will vary, so I will at best get a retail cost. The face plates seem to be around $25 retail. From their marketing material, the installation cost should be close to a standard GPO.


                      EDIT: After a little more looking at the Clipsal site, it appears the Iconic Bluetooth range is more aimed at lighting and fans, rather than GPOs. They do mention 10-amp and controlling heaters, but that is all hard-wired, not a socket outlet.

                      I guess it would be possible to have the timer mechanism controlling power to the GPO - ie: a switch adjacent to the sockets, but I don't know if that is allowed in the regulations. I will have to find an electrician familiar with the Iconic range or see if Clipsal responds to punters.
                      Last edited by steve7; 2 November 2018, 12:16 PM. Reason: Updated info

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                      • #41
                        If you have any issues let me know. I'm an industrial electrician in Sydney, so I can chase info from Clipsal if you need it.

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                        • #42
                          I've been using the Eve Energy plug in power point since purchasing my first machine recently, couldn't be happier as the machine turns on at 5am everyday I'm home and I then turn it off manually when I'm done in the morning via the iPad/iPhone. Very easy to schedule and I went with the Eve as it works with Apple's Homekit which I have other things in the house tied into.

                          https://www.evehome.com/en/eve-energy

                          Would have been nice to find one with a built in surge protector, but I have the Eve plugged into a surge protector then into the wall. Very nice to have the ability to turn the machine on when I'm out and expecting to be home in 30-40 minutes and keen for a coffee, also has a manual switch to turn on/off.

                          Here's a quick screen grab of the last few days of use, heating up from scratch and then turning off an hour or so later, today I made a few extra shots dialing in a new bean as you see...



                          .

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                          • #43
                            The Eve Energy plug looks interesting, but I was looking for something flush because space is at a premium - and I think that's what the OP was getting at too.

                            @level3ninja suggested the Clipsal Iconic range because they had Bluetooth controllers. After looking through the Clipsal documentation I came to the view that this was all aimed at lights and fans with some hard-wired functions such as heater times.

                            I emailed Clipsal and they had nothing but the industrial time clocks to offer. I went into one of the electrical retailers - Haymans and was told the Iconic range could do what I wanted. They suggested the following products, with the timer in the extra switch aperture, running the power outlet.

                            https://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Produc...o=41E10PBT3SBM

                            https://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Produc...l?catno=3015XC

                            The alternative was to just put the timer in a plate and get it installed next to the existing power point, controlling power to that GPO. They assured me that was within regs. Material cost for the timer in the single switch is about $200 on the Clipsal website (plus installation) - cheaper elsewhere. It's configured by a Clipsal room app.

                            This is a lot dearer than the Envirotouch switch, but that could be made up by blowing one component on the coffee machine because of its flicking off and on at the end of the cycle.

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                            • #44
                              From their website there's no reason it couldn't control the coffee machine. Given its rated load it should probably only switch a single GPO not a double (as a double could have 20A is someone decided to plug two kettles or sandwich presses etc in at the same time). The fact that it's designed for lighting won't change anything. It has an inductive load rating of 10A but a resistive load rating of 15A. Your coffee machine will be >90% resistive.

                              If you want it to switch two outlets at once you could have it switch a contactor at your switchboard that controlls one double GPO, or get a second unit to simultaneously switch another single GPO. All adds $$ though.

                              Aassuming you have the machine and grinder plugged in to a DGPO at the moment, you could leave the existing DGPO with the grinder plugged in and have a second plate installed next to it with the Bluetooth module and a SGPO for the machine.

                              What part of the country are you in?

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                              • #45
                                I’m in northern NSW.

                                The coffee machine is rated at 1400 watts and the grinder at 200w (Quamar Q50), so well under 10amps but I take your point about two kettles.

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