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Wall sockets with built in timers - Preferences / opinions

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  • steve7
    replied
    Thought I would do a quick update 3 weeks on.

    The Clipsal Iconic timer is doing the job well. I just noticed on the app, the icon shows how long the timer has to run, which is a feature I thought was missing.

    I was so happy with it, I replaced the booster switch on the solar hot water system with the Iconic clock mechanism (10A) to give it a boost every afternoon when the sun has finished doing most of the heating. If the water is hot enough, nothing will happen, but on rainy days or the cooler months we will get that little boost without having to remember. You can also override it at any time using the timer function.

    That’s the main reason I am mentioning this here. The clock version in the Iconic range also does the timer function, so that would be more useful with the coffee machine. You could have the GPO switch on at 0700 using the clock function, ready for when you get up. Then throughout the rest of the day you use the timer function to run the machine for say an hour. Both mechanisms are the same price, so I don’t know why they bother with the timer on function.

    Oh - and if your bedroom is within Bluetooth range of the switch, you can use your phone to turn it on while lying in bed!

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    Good result. Kept your bench space and gained long term functionality, invisibly when the machine is in place, and sounds like it's solved your issues.

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  • steve7
    replied
    I decided to go ahead. All up material cost was $180 (mechanism and switch plate) - installation extra.

    It doesn’t quite match in with our Clipsal C2000 plates, but with the coffee machine in place it does not stand out. See pic.

    The Wiser Room app is easy to operate - you can try it out with demo apps.

    With the app you set how long you want the timer to run for, down to the second - and you can can turn it off and on from the app (Because the 3 metres from the table to the switch is so far!) It also allows you to control the light behind the timer switch (eg: flashes when on). You can also start and stop the timer with the push button switch.

    Not cheap and I could do it manually, but I keep leaving the machine on and the alternatives aren’t viable.
    Attached Files

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    Originally posted by steve7 View Post
    I assume the double GPO that is there can stay, separated from the Iconic mechanism, as long as it doesn't exceed the GPO number on that circuit. (I thought it used to be "x" GPOs per circuit - don't know if the rules still go that way.)
    Used to be 20 I think (double counted as 2), but now it's as many as you like provided you don't have so many the circuit trips regularly. How many that is depends on what's getting plugged into it. Given that you're just separating the machine and grinder there's no additional load and no problem.

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  • steve7
    replied
    I think I will ask that it be put it in the single socket plate to be safe. The risk of overheating and a fire inside the wall cavity is too great.

    I assume the double GPO that is there can stay, separated from the Iconic mechanism, as long as it doesn't exceed the GPO number on that circuit. (I thought it used to be "x" GPOs per circuit - don't know if the rules still go that way.)

    Luckily the double GPO with the toaster and kettle at the other end of the bench is on a different circuit.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    Shame you're not closer. From a legal point of view it has to be capable of switching what could be plugged into it, unless you limit what can be plugged in. So if you wanted to just have a single wall plate not two, you could have the switch with a double GPO, it would just have to be protected by a 10A circuit breaker. To avoid nuisance tripping you'd have to put it on its own circuit. Probably more expensive but if you really want just one plate it's one of the options.

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  • steve7
    replied
    I’m in northern NSW.

    The coffee machine is rated at 1400 watts and the grinder at 200w (Quamar Q50), so well under 10amps but I take your point about two kettles.

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    From their website there's no reason it couldn't control the coffee machine. Given its rated load it should probably only switch a single GPO not a double (as a double could have 20A is someone decided to plug two kettles or sandwich presses etc in at the same time). The fact that it's designed for lighting won't change anything. It has an inductive load rating of 10A but a resistive load rating of 15A. Your coffee machine will be >90% resistive.

    If you want it to switch two outlets at once you could have it switch a contactor at your switchboard that controlls one double GPO, or get a second unit to simultaneously switch another single GPO. All adds $$ though.

    Aassuming you have the machine and grinder plugged in to a DGPO at the moment, you could leave the existing DGPO with the grinder plugged in and have a second plate installed next to it with the Bluetooth module and a SGPO for the machine.

    What part of the country are you in?

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  • steve7
    replied
    The Eve Energy plug looks interesting, but I was looking for something flush because space is at a premium - and I think that's what the OP was getting at too.

    @level3ninja suggested the Clipsal Iconic range because they had Bluetooth controllers. After looking through the Clipsal documentation I came to the view that this was all aimed at lights and fans with some hard-wired functions such as heater times.

    I emailed Clipsal and they had nothing but the industrial time clocks to offer. I went into one of the electrical retailers - Haymans and was told the Iconic range could do what I wanted. They suggested the following products, with the timer in the extra switch aperture, running the power outlet.

    https://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Produc...o=41E10PBT3SBM

    https://www.clipsal.com/Trade/Produc...l?catno=3015XC

    The alternative was to just put the timer in a plate and get it installed next to the existing power point, controlling power to that GPO. They assured me that was within regs. Material cost for the timer in the single switch is about $200 on the Clipsal website (plus installation) - cheaper elsewhere. It's configured by a Clipsal room app.

    This is a lot dearer than the Envirotouch switch, but that could be made up by blowing one component on the coffee machine because of its flicking off and on at the end of the cycle.

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  • ShaunQ
    replied
    I've been using the Eve Energy plug in power point since purchasing my first machine recently, couldn't be happier as the machine turns on at 5am everyday I'm home and I then turn it off manually when I'm done in the morning via the iPad/iPhone. Very easy to schedule and I went with the Eve as it works with Apple's Homekit which I have other things in the house tied into.

    https://www.evehome.com/en/eve-energy

    Would have been nice to find one with a built in surge protector, but I have the Eve plugged into a surge protector then into the wall. Very nice to have the ability to turn the machine on when I'm out and expecting to be home in 30-40 minutes and keen for a coffee, also has a manual switch to turn on/off.

    Here's a quick screen grab of the last few days of use, heating up from scratch and then turning off an hour or so later, today I made a few extra shots dialing in a new bean as you see...



    .

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    If you have any issues let me know. I'm an industrial electrician in Sydney, so I can chase info from Clipsal if you need it.

    Leave a comment:


  • steve7
    replied
    Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
    The other option, which I haven't researched more than hearing about it a couple of months ago and 5min googling now, is Clipsal Iconic Bluetooth switch mechanisms and their ControlLink app. It works the same as the Z-wave above, except the extra such in the power point and the relay are combined into one. I think you don't need a seperate mastery controller for this either, you just set it up through the app. Worth investigating.
    Thanks for this - it looks like the way to go. I had seen references to the mechanisms in my Google searches, but the information was a little vague. The first few things I looked at focussed on the look not the function, but after a bit more reading, it looks like an interesting system that could easily be retrofitted into a home.

    I suspect it will be just a tad more high quality than the one I have installed.

    Interestingly the electricians I have had doing work in the house recently did not know about it and neither did the electrical outlet. They only knew about the industrial switches, so I will have to ask specific questions. If I find a material cost, I will post. The electrician’s margins will vary, so I will at best get a retail cost. The face plates seem to be around $25 retail. From their marketing material, the installation cost should be close to a standard GPO.


    EDIT: After a little more looking at the Clipsal site, it appears the Iconic Bluetooth range is more aimed at lighting and fans, rather than GPOs. They do mention 10-amp and controlling heaters, but that is all hard-wired, not a socket outlet.

    I guess it would be possible to have the timer mechanism controlling power to the GPO - ie: a switch adjacent to the sockets, but I don't know if that is allowed in the regulations. I will have to find an electrician familiar with the Iconic range or see if Clipsal responds to punters.
    Last edited by steve7; 2 November 2018, 12:16 PM. Reason: Updated info

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  • level3ninja
    replied
    How much are you willing to spend? There are a couple of options. You could get a Z-wave in wall relay (~$100) that your electrician can install to switch the power point. You'll need a controller compatible with the switch, they can be full blown stand alone units that will do your whole house and can run over $1500, or they can be as simple as a USB stick and some software (I think <$100). These you can then control with an app. You can also have your electrician replace your power point with one with an extra switch in it (get a bell press mechanism, not latching but spring return), and that switch can be wired into the relay directly and you can program it to run for 1 or 2 hours when you press the button (and turn off again if you press it within that time etc). I plan to do most of my house with Z-wave in the not-too-distant future.

    The other option, which I haven't researched more than hearing about it a couple of months ago and 5min googling now, is Clipsal Iconic Bluetooth switch mechanisms and their ControlLink app. It works the same as the Z-wave above, except the extra such in the power point and the relay are combined into one. I think you don't need a seperate mastery controller for this either, you just set it up through the app. Worth investigating.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jackster
    replied
    There are switches available that are hardwired in. They could be mounted inside your coffee machine.
    No idea of reliability as I don't have one.

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  • ghexy
    replied
    Replacing the GPO is a job for a licensed electrician and, unless you find something like a CBUS-level of reliability, potentially problematic in the long term.
    Why don't you look at a smart plug - something like this: https://www.tp-link.com/au/products/list-5258.html
    They're easy to set up, have a great deal of flexibility in terms of setting up multiple schedules, can be integrated with smart speakers so you can ask Google Home or Alexa to turn on/off the coffee machine and you can also turn them on/off from your phone wherever you are. So, if you ever feel like having a coffee when you leave work and come home, you can turn on the machine so it's nice and hot by the time you walk thru the door.

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