Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
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Interesting Tamping Techniques
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Is your delete box not working, Wushoes?
-Robusto
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Interesting...I met Andrew the other day for the first time at First Pour when I was on bar...he pulled a shot and tapped the portafilter twice with the base of the tamper. The shot was a bit fast from memory, but he stepped on the machine cold...Im sure he would have been more than capable of pulling an awesome shot given a few more tries adjusting his technique and/or grinder.
Dosing consistently was something I used to struggle with way back when, as a newbie barista and home barista with the Silvia. Figure out what works for you and then you can start changing parameters like grind and dose levels.
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Agree that the dose and distribution are the more crucial factors.
Even a slight tap of the portafilter will knock down grinds on the side of the basket. Before the tamp.
Back to the dose. Consistency here should be aimed for. But what is consistent for one roast and one grind is not necessarily going to work for a different combination.
Im having enormous problem at the moment with the PNG Kinjibi. I fear that by the time I get it right the whole batch will have disappeared.
Some ground SOs --like this one --are so light and fluffy that the fill/tap/re-fill and level just doesnt work.
--Robusto
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Picture perfect...you mean a rosetta poured by the naked?Originally posted by luca link=1185437101/15#27 date=1185698661I remember being at Maling Room a few months ago whilst one of our baristi was training. He had the bottomless portafilter out and every second or third shot was spurting all over the place. Andrew got sick of it, walked over to the machine, grabbed the naked portafilter, ground, dosed, tamped the coffee with the palm of his hand, pulled a picture-perfect shot and then walked off.
Thats what Andrew gave me last time, rosettas on everything, even my espresso*
*this may or may not be the truth.... ;D
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Hehehe ... this old thing ...
Basically, I have tested all of the voodoo that people talk about as being crucial to getting a decent shot; tapping the side of the basket, perfect fitting tampers, stirring up the grinds with a toothpick, tamp north-south-east-west, polish under pressure. I tried out all of these techniques, testing them with both a bottomless portafilter and my tastebuds (the only thing that matters) and I dont think that any of them result in a better tasting shot than the same routine without them. Like David said, I found that anything that you do that puts pressure on the puck after the first time that you have tamped it increases the risk of channeling. That said, I still polish and do things like that all the time - useless habits that Im trying to break.
To get a great shot, I think that the most important thing is, as David said, to be consistent. The hardest thing to get right is dosing the same amount each time. I think that the easiest way to do this is to dose a bit more than you need, rap the pf to settle a few times, then to strike off the excess. The amount of excess that you have and the number of times that you rap the pf seem to affect how much you will pack in. The striking off method has the advantage of also seeming to take care of coffee distribution. Tamp pressure then makes a bit of a difference, but not as much of a difference as dose level. Once you can do all of that consistently, you can really start to explore your extraction parameters by changing your grind setting to get the pour that you want or by raising or lowering the dose.
I remember being at Maling Room a few months ago whilst one of our baristi was training. He had the bottomless portafilter out and every second or third shot was spurting all over the place. Andrew got sick of it, walked over to the machine, grabbed the naked portafilter, ground, dosed, tamped the coffee with the palm of his hand, pulled a picture-perfect shot and then walked off.
Now the caveat that I ought to add is that all of this experimentation has taken place with commercial grinders and commercial machines that have some sort of gradual pressure buildup. I cant say based on experience whether it will necessarily work with other equipment, but my simple technique is what I used with my Silvia/Rocky.
Cheers,
Luca
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
I dont find coffee riding up the side of the baskets too much of a problem...one of the inherent drawbacks of not tapping......all you have to do is clean the group seal with the Pallo brush more.
The way I dose and tamp is:
1) fill basket 3/4 and settle with 3 hard taps on the fork
2) fill slightly over the basket and settle again with 3 hard taps on the fork
3) distribute with my index finger and thumb
4) level off with either a scoop or straight edge of a scoop.
5) tamp to a consistent pressure (same pressure everytime...Espro helps, but I dont use it)
6) flick wrist David Makin style which sends a few grinds flying
7) tamp lightly and polish.
Luca likes to tamp once and believes anything more is excessive, and can lead to a pour going wrong, including the polish. During big rushes, Ill adopt Lucas technique with great success to shave those few precious seconds. So maybe my extra steps are excessive, but that will require a lot of hours and experimentation.
The message is, as long as your dosing, distribution and tamping is consistent, youre on the right path. No one technique is correct or incorrect, except for tapping with the tamper
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Tapping will lead to fracturing in the puck that you just compressed with the tamp.
A poorly fitting tamper will also lead to coffee up the sides of the basket.
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
I agree with Wushoes. After Luca posted several times last year about
the evils of tapping the PF, I tried the idea of removing those grinds
stuck to the sides by using a "NSEW" technique after one full pressure tamp,
to clean the sides. Those nsew movements are not at full pressure,
really just cleaning up the sides and polishing.
For a couple of weeks, I alternated between tapping and the above.
Not tapping was a clear winner.
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Hi CQ,
In a nutshell, tapping the PF will do more damage than good. Yes, tapping lightly will get rid of the grinds on the side of the basket, however, use a naked portafilter and you will see why it is a bad idea. An eye full of espresso isnt nice.
As a barista, you need all the help you can get in pulling good shots, and anything you can do (or not do) to help will make a big difference. I think simplifying things down often makes sense.
Cheers,
shoes
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
Hiya Wushoes, grateful if you could elaborate on this statement a little? I was taught that this technique (albeit when applied gently) is a way to "spread" grinds that would have otherwise have been pressed against the inner wall of the basket (ie: between the basket and the tamper)?Originally posted by Wushoes - David S link=1185437101/15#21 date=1185618682
There are things I do believe should not be done when it comes to tamping though, and one of them tapping the portafilter with the tamper mid-tamp. This is something I do not do and recommend against.
As a relative Espresso newbie, I am keen to learn the merits of any new techniques (or indeed, objections!) as this can only help me get better
Cheers and thanks for any insight!
CQ
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Re: Interesting Tamping Techniques
As long as your dosing, distribution and tamping technique is consistent it shouldnt matter. There are no real right or wrong techniques, as long as it works, in my opinion.
There are things I do believe should not be done when it comes to tamping though, and one of them tapping the portafilter with the tamper mid-tamp. This is something I do not do and recommend against.
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Re: Lower end machines can still make a great coff
only in the name of CS- science, Robusto...A little worried about your extraction times though, still pouring at 37/42 seconds.
it was a double Synesso basket, and i normally stop around 30 sec, but i wanted to see how the shots compared to the end.
but thanks for looking over my shoulder...

L
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Re: Lower end machines can still make a great coff
You might be on to something there Lizzi. Whatever works for you is good.
A little worried about your extraction times though, still pouring at 37/42 seconds.
-Robusto
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Re: Lower end machines can still make a great coff
the vibrating tamper-table sounds like an option... it could be battery operated and sit wherever on the benchtop...
whereas making parts of grinders vibrate... there are so many different grinders around!
i tried putting/moving the vibrating shaft in the grinds (similar to paperclip/needle method), but all it did was create a little bunker around itself... shame, cause if that had worked, the use of the brush-less toothbrush would have been so easy...
clearly the secret is vibrating the basket...
L
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