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  • Help for a newbie

    Hi all,

    Just joined CS as I need some advice and this seems to be the ideal place to get it!

    The family and I have just moved back to Sydney (small kitchen, unfortunately) and I am the only coffee drinker (1-2 cups a day at home; 2-3 cups at work!). That being said, I am determined to buy a decent coffee machine for home.

    My constraints are space (small kitchen as I said) and money (dont we all?). I was hoping to buying something for under $750 particularly in these post-christmas sales. I was wondering about the fully automatic machines but suspect that space and money may be prohibitive. The Saeco Incanto CS seems to fit the bill ($599 at Bing Lee ... RIP) except it seems rather large whereas the Krups Compact Espresseria Pro sounds smaller in size but larger in budget.

    Can anyone give me any ideas, advice or alternatives?
    Thanks in advance,
    RP8383

  • #2
    Re: Help for a newbie

    Welcome to CS.

    Dont forget that without a quality grinder you wont get decent coffee out of any machine.
    Have you budgeted for that?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Help for a newbie

      Thanks for the reply. I thought a fully automatic machine does that too. (or am I being too optimistic, naive or just completely unrealistic within my budget? If so whats the best that I can get for that price?)
      RP8383

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Help for a newbie

        Gday RP8383 and Welcome to CoffeeSnobs...... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

        With your budget mate Id steer well clear of any Super Auto machines like the unit you referred to. At best they produce average quality coffee (while theyre running) even if you use the best quality, freshly roasted beans you can lay your hands on. And as Ive already alluded to, they are very high maintenance machines and unless you are prepared to spend between $1500-2500 for a decent machine such as manufactured by Jura, then I would forget all about Super Autos.

        The most important aspect of all, and one that is most often overlooked.... is the need to use freshly roasted, high quality coffee and ONLY grind it immediately prior to brewing, no matter what method is employed. Ground coffee starts to go stale and rancid within minutes, freshly roasted whole beans may last up to a month but are best used within two weeks of roasting as they also go stale and rancid.

        I guess that brings up the next item..... A decent grinder. No matter what method of brewing you employ, be it Espresso, Plunger, Drip, Stove-top or Turkish... you need a grinder that is capable of producing grinds that are confined to within a narrow size range and this means that anything but a decent burr grinder is out of the question.

        Probably the least expensive grinder available that is capable of doing this is the Sunbeam EMO450 at around the $150 mark. This is a very basic grinder but it uses reasonable burrs (grinding/cutters) and can do the job for espresso. If espresso is your coffee drink of choice though, you would be much better served by going with a higher quality grinder such as an Iberital Challenge or a La Spaziale Junior for around the $270 mark from several of our site sponsors. Id advise reading through this and subsequent threads on the pros and cons of grinder to give you an idea of performance and price.

        So, depending on the quality of grinder you buy and the amount of money left over, you may well be better off going with a Plunger or Stove-top for the time being and saving your biccies until you can afford a half reasonable espresso machine. The first real espresso machines probably start with the likes of a Gaggia Baby/Classic or Imat Mokita/Fenice/Lelit and go up from there. Lots of info to be found about these machines across the boards but this would be the bare minimum starting point that I would consider recommending to anyone and the budget for this level of machine would lie somewhere between $500-600.

        Anyway mate, I guess thats all food for thought and I hope it helps you out a bit. All the best and hope you have a Great New Year for 2008....

        Cheers,
        Mal.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Help for a newbie

          Thanks, Mal. Thats been a great help. Always better to look before you leap! Ill look into things a bit closer then.
          Best wishes to you and yours for the New Year, too!
          RP8383

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Help for a newbie

            The Sunbeam owners must all be on holidays, so Ill speak on their behalf. :P

            On your budget you should be able to swing a Sunbeam EM6910 espresso machine and an EM0480 grinder. A lot of people here have these and are more than happy with them. I have no experience with the espresso machine, but have the grinder and use it as a second grinder. There are some issues with the grind settings not being stable, but this is easily fixed at home - there are plenty of threads in the Grinder section here telling you how.

            And just to back Mal up, steer clear of the superautos.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Help for a newbie

              Having used a super auto, I would not recommend them to anyone. I have recently bought a machine with the same constraints (price & space) as you. The improvement in taste was dramatic and is still improving. I now have a LeLit Combi PL042 which has an inbuilt grinder. Using freshly roasted beans and only grinding the amount of beans required is producing coffee so unbelievably better than the old super auto. As the distributer is not a CS sponsor, I suggest you Google "LeLit Combi PL042" for further information

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Help for a newbie

                Hiya RP8383 and welcome to CoffeeSnobs!

                Im a CS who started on his coffee journey using a superauto - primarily because I was seeking something that was fool-proof and convenient and afterall... it did provide "good" coffee.  But after ~6 months of ownership. I was given an Espresso Basics class voucher (as a birthday present) and only then did I realise that "GREAT" coffee was within the grasp of this mere mortal.  Within a couple of months, I changed my equipment to a manual set up.

                Did this cost me? Yep!
                Have I regretted it?  Absolutely no way!
                Did I need to negotiate with the Mrs for some extra bench space (separate grinder/coffee machine)?  Yep! (but the step up in the quality of my coffee did a lot of my negotiating for me   )

                So really, my only regret was not having gone the manual set-up sooner.

                Cheers,

                -A-

                PS: In the 8 months of owning the superauto (Saeco Incanto Sirius Digital, rrp $1800), it cost me around $360 in servicing costs, but this figure would have been ~$300 higher had it not been for warranty coverage  

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Help for a newbie

                  To second Viviane (on behalf of the Sunbeam afficionados), I use a Sunbeam 6910 at work, recently supplied by Sunbeam to replace the 6900 that died (their customer service is good).
                  I also bought an EM0450 grinder (similar to the 0480 but plastic body) and it does do a reasonable job.

                  So if you try do a deal for both items you should come close to your budget.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Help for a newbie

                    Hi all,
                    Happy New Year to everyone and thanks for all the advice!
                    I will do some more homework and look into buying either a Lelit or a Gaggia Baby with a Sunbeam EMO480 grinder and a Greg Pullman tamper - sounds like the combination will more than suit my needs (for 2008 at least anyway). If anyone knows of anyone good deals going in these post-Christmas sales I would be most appreciative.
                    RP8383

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Help for a newbie

                      One piece of advice regarding the sunbeam grinder and the gaggia baby. The grinder is not going to be up to the standard of a gaggia. I would recommend a Gaggia MDF when they become available again which is not far off now. Or an Iberital Challenge.

                      Your other alternative is also a gaggi classic. I have a teeny tiny kitchen and have a gaggia Classic and a Gaggia MDF grinder and they take up very little room.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Help for a newbie

                        Thanks, Lucinda. Any tips as to where to buy them?
                        RP8383

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Help for a newbie

                          Hi RP,

                          Having read your needs, Id second Sunny Coasters suggestion of a Lelit Combi - good single boiler (300 ml brass) unit with built in Lux grinder. More than happy with mine. About $750 price range.

                          One thing about pre-Xmas sale expectations, this isnt a typical discount department store item youre looking at (or maybe if you go Sunbeam it might be?) and getting a discount price may not be realistic. However, of far more importance is the quality of service and after-sale service, which will be remembered long after youve forgotten the price you paid (to borrow a quote from someone else on this forum - I think Greg or Chris - thanks guys).

                          Good luck and enjoy the search.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Help for a newbie

                            Thanks, Greg. Point taken. It is easy to get sucked in by the initial low cost only to get burnt later.
                            RP8383

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Help for a newbie

                              Try site sponsor Di Bartoli in Sydney. They stock Gaggia stuff and will be able to help you.

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