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  • #16
    Re: Help for a newbie

    Hi guys,

    First I want to say what a great forum this is - Im looking forward to having a good read back through all the posts. Im no Barrister, but I love a great espresso.

    Ok, onto my question...

    Im looking to buy a new espresso machine and would like some advice.

    My wife and I work from a home office, we both love nice smooth coffee. We dont have that many coffees per day (2-4 between us) but when we have them, I really dont want to be disapointed by a bitter cup! (it Ruins my day!! > )

    Some years back we bought a cheapy Sunbeam machine and an equally cheap Sunbeam grinder (0400 model). When I first brought it home, we had a dozen cups of coffee between us within the space of an hour because we were so chuffed at the quality (that afternoon we rushed around the house in a chaotic house clean-up fit that resulted in half of everything being cleaned spotless! ).

    A few months down the track, our machine began to start making the odd cup of really bitter coffee. A few months later, it got to the point where we would only get one good cup our of every six bitter ones. Eventually in a fit of "bitter coffee rage" I threw the Sunbeam in the bin and went back to the office to sulk. Id like to point out here that I had been cleaning the machine pretty regularly. I should also note that I only ever bought Supermarket roasted beans.

    Anyhow (thats enough background) I finally started looking around again for a new coffee machine (Its pretty bad when I have to go to McDonalds to get a non-bitter cup of coffee), and after first reading the Choice review (recommending the Magimix) found this forum.

    After reading a few posts, I gave Renzo a call at DiBartoli who gave some great advice and we talked about the Gaggia Classic with a Silvia frothing spout to get a silkier milk which sounds like a good setup for my budget.

    However, after returning to the forum, Ive realised that half of the bitterness problem is probably to do with my cheap grinder, and the fact that Ive been using Supermarket beans.

    Given that Im going to have a go at roasting my own green beans from this site (which should improve things), and I have a budget of $500-600 what would people recommend I do?

    I can see two main options:

    1. Buy the Gaggia Classic, and keep using my cheap Sunbeam grinder for now (and get a conical burr grinder ~$200 later).

    2. Buy a better conical grinder (like the Sunbeam for around $200) and buy a cheaper espresso machine for around $400 (are there any decent machines for this price?)

    What are peoples thoughts on this? Will the cheapo blade grinder continue to give me horrible coffee even with the Gaggia? Will a conical burr for under $200 do the job?

    Cheers!

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Help for a newbie

      Welcome Hubris!

      Get the Sunbeam out of the bin (if you can) and blow your whole budget on as good a grinder as you can!

      Helicopter grinders wont make you happy - they do a lousy job....like taking an axe with the expectation to be able to manicure a bowling green.

      Having said that, youll be astonished at how much improvement you will find once you start roasting your own, or buying fresh.

      Perhaps you could go back to Renzo/Ofra and ask some more questions?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Help for a newbie

        Welcome Hubris!

        Definitely option 2. A blade grinder will never give you the consistency of a burr grinder. Im confident youd get consistently better results from a $200 machine with a burr grinder than a $2000 machine with a blade grinder. Blade grinders just smash the beans and grind fineness is only determined by how long the blades are allowed to smash away at the beans. Burr grinders on the other hand have an adjustable set distance between each burr so the grind will always be the same (other factors like build quality aside for the minute).

        If cost is the issue, the combo Id be looking at if I were you would be the Sunbeam EM0450 (their entry level burr grinder) or the 0480 (same internals but a couple of extra features) and the Gaggia Classic if you can afford it. If not then something like the Breville Ikon is reputed to be quite a good machine at a RRP around $350.

        Good luck!
        Greg

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Help for a newbie

          Hi,

          I am needing help in regards to buying a new coffee machine. I have been looking around and realy like the Jura brand although in saying this, my husband wants a coffee machine that is a double boiler, he has been looking at the Giotto. The other requirement is that we would like to be able to place a mug on the tray.

          Could you please advise on a quality machine and coffee grinder if needed.

          Thanks

          Sam

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Help for a newbie

            A good grinder is crucial in producing good coffee. I started out with the Sunbeam EM450 and still use it early in the morning in my garage as Im not allowed to use my Rocky in the house at 5.30am!! It does a good job and I noticed a marked improvement in my coffee once I started using fresh beans and grinding on demand, at that stage I was using a Saeco Via Venezia and the espresso improved out of sight.
            Upgradeitis soon took hold of me and I now have a Silvia/Rocky setup, roast my own beans on a Corretto roaster and so the journey continues!!
            Good luck with your decisions and check out the wealth of information on this forum.................................

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Help for a newbie

              Welcome Sam!

              Firstly, terminology is probably confusing if youre new to all this, but youve raised two very different types of machine. A Jura is a superautomatic which does everything for you, costs a lot of money to purchase and maintain, and generally gives adequate to good results. The Giotto is a semi-automatic machine which means you have to take care of things like grinding, tamping and steaming milk, but they are capable of much better results, similarly priced (approximately) but are a lot cheaper to maintain. So youre really trading off high cost and high convenience against high quality of results. Also the Giotto is actually whats called a heat exchanger machine not a double boiler, however both systems achieve the same end result via different means.

              Itd help us a lot if you can advise if youre after a superautomatic machine or a semi-automatic (preferable). Also what budget you are working to will help a lot.

              Welcome again!
              Greg

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Help for a newbie

                Thanks Greg,

                Well, I am hopeless with terminology, so please excuse my lack of knowledge. We want a machine that does make coffee and steam the milk at the same time. I was thinking that the Jura could become a problem later on due to the electronics of it. I was hoping to confirm that the Giotto would make a much better coffee than the Jura.

                To throw another spanner in the works, do you know what the kitchen aid espresso machine is like. We have not come to any decision on the price as yet. I think my husband is happy to spend $2500 on the Giotto, however if you or anyone else could recommend a fabulous coffee machine please do so.

                Thanks again Sam ;D

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Help for a newbie

                  Welcome Sam.

                  You can get a pretty decent grinder and machine for that sort of budget.

                  I recommend talking to the site sponsors.
                  They will work with you to decide and support you afterwards.

                  I bought from a Melbourne sponsor because at the time there wasnt a Sydney one and have been extremely satisfied with both the equipment and after sales service (which has only needed to be advice as the machines both run perfectly).

                  However you may prefer to deal with someone close to home, so if youll mention where you are we can be more specific as to which sponsors are in your area.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Help for a newbie

                    Hi,

                    Thanks for that. I am in the Newcastle area and have no idea what I am doing. How do I contact the sponsors please.

                    Thanks sam.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Help for a newbie

                      Hi Sam,

                      No problems at all, it definitely has a language and acronyms of its own much like any special interest area! I would strongly steer you away from a superautomatic unless youre in an office environment where no-one knows how to use it and is willing to take ownership of the thing.

                      I think there are a few KitchenAid machines but from the little I know they tend to be at the lower end of the price and quality spectrum and are not overly well represented in Australia (others who deal with machines could confirm). If youre prepared to spend above the $1500 mark on a machine then you have plenty of options. You mentioned grinder in your first post and this is something which absolutely, definitely, non-negotiably needs to be in your budget to get the best from any espresso machine. If your limit is around the $2500 mark then Id look at a machine more around the $1500-$2000 mark and spend the rest on the grinder. If you get a cheap grinder it will always limit the results you can get from your machine. If you can stretch it out to $3k then you open up a few more options in the higher end of the machine bracket.

                      Id recommend a read through the Information on Espresso Machines thread as this covers many of the machines in this price range. But consider Expobar Office, Expobar Leva, Expobar Minore, Diamond Italia, Vibiemme Domobar Super and ECM / Rocket Giotto as a starting point (there are others). Once youve done that, check out the info on grinders thread in the grinders area as that does the same for the grinder; for the sort of machine youre looking at, Id be looking to spend upwards of $500 on the grinder. If any of the terminology confuses you, do a site search on the term in question and youll probably get the answer - there arent too many questions which havent been asked before!

                      Remember that depending what you get and where you get it from, the accessories that come with the machine will vary - milk jug, thermometer, tamper, knock box, cleaning accessories etc. Tuck away a couple of hundred for these, though most of our site sponsors can normally work out something for you if youre buying a machine at the same time.

                      Happy hunting!
                      Greg

                      P.S. Sponsors are in that list right over there <-------------------

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Help for a newbie

                        By the way neither of those Information On... threads are exhaustive and the sponsors may have other equipment that suits. They are more than happy to recommend a suitable combo for your needs and budget.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Help for a newbie

                          Thank you so much for this info, it is going to help alot. ;D ;D ;D

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Help for a newbie

                            Hey Thanks a lot guys...

                            After all your advice and some more reading around the net, I decided to order the Gaggia with the Silvia steam arm from Di Bartoli. Renzo, and Jonathan there have been great, and Jonathan has been very patient with where I am on my coffee journey hehehe...

                            Ive also taken on board all your advice and decided to buy a better grinder. I have about $150 worth of David Jones vouchers so (based on some of the posts on this forum) I was going to get the Sunbeam EMO480. Any opinions on this?

                            BTW, I cant wait to try roasting my own beans!! : Im counting down the last of my McCafe coffees!! :-[

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Help for a newbie

                              Good choice Hubris on the machine, and as a bonus youll score brownie points with Lucinda! ;D The 0480 would definitely be the grinder of choice at that price, unless you wanted to save a few bob and get the 0450; but the 0480 looks better and has the manual switch which can be handy.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Help for a newbie

                                Greg, I agree, the 480 looks better

                                hehe... Dennis, I actually let loose on the old Sunbeam with my wood splitter... from memory Id made 12 bitter coffees in a row hoping for one nice one... and in the end it was too much for me to bare. Also, from talking with Jonathan at Di Bartoli, it sounds like a lot of the problem with the Sunbeam was that Id been using our Yass town water which produces a lot of scale. Sounds like it had been building up in the thermoblock for a while.

                                Ill also take your advice and keep my little helicopter for trimming against my brick planter boxes

                                Sam, I found this site helpful in understanding what I was getting for my money.

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