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Silvia and Classic side-by-side

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Originally posted by coffeedrinker link=1120798525/15#27 date=1121250861
    I am now looking at a Classic (which I can pick up new through a friend at 499) or the Silvia which after reading have been impressed with. I have to admit the aluminium corrosion issue is a little worry as well in the Gaggia (reading at Coffeeco.com.au)
    cheers
    Hi CD,

    Another quality machine you might like to consider which is in the same price bracket as the Gaggia Classic, is the Mokita Super Inox, info here... http://tinyurl.com/e3hvr or here... http://tinyurl.com/ap72g . It has an all brass Boiler/Group/PortaFilter system and the boiler is the twin of the Silvias. The only real differences between the two are:

    1. The Silvias internal high-pressure pipework is all copper tubing where-as the Mokitas is a mixture of brass and Teflon.

    2. The Silvia has a proper chassis upon which all the hardware and panel-work is attached; the Mokita uses a unitary structure where the panel-work supports all the hardware.

    3. The Silvias Group and PortaFilter are constructed to Commercial Machines specifications which is standardised with the use of 58mm PF Baskets; the Mokita Group and PortaFilter are of lighter construction and physically smaller than the Silvia and uses a proprietary 57mm PF and Baskets. For example, the Silvias PortaFilter weighs in at about 640 grams, where-as the Mokitas weighs roughly 460 grams.

    As Alan Frew points out in his comparison between the two here... http://tinyurl.com/8gemw , the Silvia appears to be designed down from a Fully Commercial machine, while a Mokita appears to be designed up from a high-end Domestic machine. Thats about it in a nutshell.

    I went for the Mokita because it is about $250.00 cheaper than the Silvia and I just couldnt afford the extra money at the time. Im really happy with the Mokita though, it produces coffee that is within a percent or two of the Silvia and is otherwise a very well constructed machine.

    Even Alan Frew cant tell the difference between coffee milk drinks made from either machine but reports that espressos are slightly sweeter and fuller in body with the Silvia. So, I guess if most of your coffee consumption is espressos, then the Silvia is the way to go but if Lattes are more your thing, then get the Mokita and put the money saved towards a top quality grinder such as a Rocky or a Mazzer Mini for example.

    Hope that helps ;D. All the best,

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Hi All,

    The biggest contributor to the large temperature differential profile is the Hysteresis of the Brew Thermostat, i.e. the temperature at which it turns ON and the temp it turns OFF. Subtract the former from the latter and you have the t/stats hysteresis.

    Thats why a PID mod works so well with a Silvia and similar machines, once the Boiler Water Temp is stabilised the only variable effecting brew water temp is the heat loss from the boiler to the PF. This tends to be a fairly predictable number and generally only effected by the ambient temperature.

    Cheers,
    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • garglebutt
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    The variation in temperature is due to architecture of the machine and the various metal bits and pieces and where water sits at each point.

    Flushing water equalises things and starting your shots based on the boiler light gives you a consistent starting point.

    Leave a comment:


  • wattgn
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Wired:

    I am puzzled that there is such a variation.

    The good news is that for one or two cups at a time you can get the temp, pretty well on the button every time.

    As you say, if you start doing runs of espresso then it is not possible to really temp surf each one.

    I am interested in how this Sunbeam EM6900 will perform. It requires a temp study inside the portafilter as the temp variation problem will occur during the shot due to the thermoblock volume. If it does vary a lot then of course there is no workaround. If the variation is small though then that would be a different matter. If that happened, I could even be persuaded to buy one. They may even through in a free toaster...

    I have my thermocouple ready and im about to dip it in the chaff tray of my Hottop!

    Regards,
    Grant

    Leave a comment:


  • garglebutt
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    You definitely have to temperature surf with the Silvia otherwise the results vary wildly.

    It is one of the main reasons I replaced my Silvia with a Giotto as I wanted the convenience of being able to make multiple cups without having to tweak the temperature for each cup.

    Leave a comment:


  • Monti
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    LOL

    Come to the dark side my son..........the force is strong with the dark side.......

    or should it be, leave the dark side......? I dont know.

    Leave a comment:


  • wattgn
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Hi guys:

    I just did a few temp measurements on my Silvia which I bought a few months ago.

    I think Alan is implying that temperature surfing is not necessary on the Silvia.

    I have just done some measurements and I am VERY surprised just how many degrees it does cycle, from about 97 after the light goes off down to 84 degrees (and probably less as this was 12 minutes after light went off). This would explain Sparkys temps he was getting in the mid 80s. This is quite possible and likely and is NOT abnormal in any way.

    I would have expected a less variation maybe around six degrees.

    If anyone thinks you dont need to temp surf on the Silvia then they simply havent had a good look at the machine and how it behaves.

    The good news of course is that it is very predictable. It is always 97 degrees after the light goes out so if you surf then it is fine.

    Maybe a good thermoblock machine is in order?



    Grant

    PS. All the wicked things I said about thermoblocks...

    Leave a comment:


  • wattgn
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Ditto no problems although I have only had mine a few months. I had the classic previously.

    It is the benchmark by which other machines are rated.

    It is robust, reliable and very simple.

    Service in Perth is excellent but obviously it depends where you live but I have never heard of servicing problems in Australia.

    Grant

    Leave a comment:


  • fatboy_1999
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Ive had mine for nearly a year, no problems whatsoever.
    As long as you keep it clean (which Im sure would be true for ANY machine), itll serve you well.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    I know of very few sylvias which have packed it in unless not cleaned or run dry....theyre a great little machine and ya gets what ya pays for

    Leave a comment:


  • coffeedrinker
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Hi guys/gals,
    I am new to this coffee game I (in the past I just used a cafeteria out bush with a hand frother as we had no power) :-/

    I am now looking at a Classic (which I can pick up new through a friend at 499) or the Silvia which after reading have been impressed with. I have to admit the aluminium corrosion issue is a little worry as well in the Gaggia (reading at Coffeeco.com.au)

    So what I am after is some basic straight feedback on both.
    I heard that Rancilio Silvia is a great machine but suffer from reliablity problems occasionally. Has anyone had that experience. I was also advised that the after market service from their reps in Australia is not that good. I think these last few issues are what is holding me off on the Silvia. I mean at 499 the Gaggia is attractive but then again to have brass and copper, am I better off with the Silvia?

    I would like to hear from anyones experiences
    cheers

    Leave a comment:


  • ShortBlack
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Having used both, and knowing something of their insides, I am more confident with the Silvias stability. Unlike other posters, that confidence is based on the mass of the grouphead and portafilter rather than the boiler. Frankly, both boilers are too small to guarantee temp stability so its only logical to be looking at other moderating factors like the group head and handle.

    One caveat though... after steaming milk, the small aluminium boiler on the Gaggia is likely to return to brewing temperature quicker than Silvia. So if youre making serial lattes you might be marginally better off with the Gaggia, but thats really clutching at straws!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Andy
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    OK all.... this is a little off-topic now.

    Any more Sunbeam posts to the actual Sunbeam thread please.

    http://www.coffeesnobs.com.au/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=Brew;action=display;num=1109515596

    ...and I for one look foward to reading all about the new Sunbeam taste tests in there ;D

    Those wanting to continue the "Silvia and Classic" discussion, please do so below.

    Andy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Monti
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    Originally posted by wattgn link=1120798525/15#15 date=1120828111
    Remember that the machines such as the Giotto and Silvia are respected as the result of several years or more of inspection, dissection, analysis, tasting and testing as well as having to earn a reputation for reliability, durability, availability of parts and servicing.

    Any new machine whether it is chinese, italian or whatever will have to run the gauntlet.  Most coffee people though will warm to a machine that delivers the goods.

    Thermoblock technology has the promise to deliver big time but so far I have seen no PROOF of this.

    As for the Sunbeam EM6900.  If it tests well, doesnt break down and has good parts and service backup, well who knows, maybe even I might buy one!!!

    Grant
    I agree with all of the above, but I just dont like you prejudge a machine that you havent seen or tested yet and havent had the opportunity of tasting the brew.

    All the above machines are geat and I do like them too.
    But again, if you only payed attention to what I have been saying all along, I merely said to try the machine, while you got negative about it without knowing anything about it. You dont have to tell me about the above machines, as I do know that they are very good indeed and I am not disputing any of it. It is just that you dont know the Sunbeam and you are disputing it.

    I havent stuck a thermocouple up my Sunbeam but at least I have been drinking its brew and it tastes just like the one I produce with our commercial machine in the shop.

    For your information the Sunbeam is not personally mine but it is in the family and I am the one that has been using it. I am not biased as I am going to buy a machine for myself as well soon and it may or may not be the Sunbeam. I dont mind spending more money to buy a machine if it is better.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparky
    replied
    Re: Silvia and Classic side-by-side

    My results are now posted on Coffeegeek:

    http://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/esp...achines/155722

    Have a look if youre interested.

    Leave a comment:

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