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Filter Basket life expectancy

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  • Filter Basket life expectancy

    I noticed that Coffee Parts recommend VST Baskets be replaced every 2 years when used in a domestic environment and each year for cafe use under 300 coffees per day.

    How significant is this to performance and is it relevant to other brands?

  • #2
    Really? I’m intrigued...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ted2013 View Post
      I noticed that Coffee Parts recommend VST Baskets be replaced every 2 years when used in a domestic environment and each year for cafe use under 300 coffees per day.

      How significant is this to performance and is it relevant to other brands?
      The numbers don't add up, literally.🙄

      Comment


      • Ted2013
        Ted2013 commented
        Editing a comment
        I see where you are coming from but this is what is on their web page

        Recommened Replacement
        2 years for domestic use
        1 year for cafe use under 300 coffees per day
        6 months for cafe use over 300 coffees per day

    • #4
      Wouldn't domestic use be determined by how many coffees you make? If it is rated for up 300 coffees a day for a year that would be 300 x 356 = 106,800 coffees. That a lot of coffee.

      Even if you made 10 coffees a day the basket should last, 106,800 / 10 / 356 = 30 years

      Minus some years for age even if you halved it, should be 15 years.

      Comment


      • Yelta
        Yelta commented
        Editing a comment
        As I said, numbers don't add up.

    • #5
      How can you tell if a filter basket is past its expectedll ife?

      Comment


      • flynnaus
        flynnaus commented
        Editing a comment
        Cheers. The question remains about when it is time to replace a basket. I didn't think these would wear out.

      • Dimal
        Dimal commented
        Editing a comment
        If you're a person who performs handstand tamping each and every time, I suppose the bottom of the basket may eventually fatigue and crack. Otherwise, sounds like a load of old rubbish to me...

      • Yelta
        Yelta commented
        Editing a comment
        I was told years ago, if the bottom of the basket looks to be bulged then its time to replace it.
        I've never had to replace one for this reason.

    • #6
      It’s probably just to keep the basket in the manufacturing tolerance. Small accurate holes will wear over time.
      if it tastes good and it’s not broken..............
      I’ve had mine in the Cafe in the for a few years now and at home since release. Never felt the need to change.
      I might do some testing next week though. I’ll add it to the list of things i want to test

      Comment


      • Dimal
        Dimal commented
        Editing a comment
        Small accurate holes will wear over time.
        Really find this to be extremely unlikely. Wet coffee fines just aren't hard enough to wear through s/s.
        Would be interesting to read the justification and factual back-up evidence to support the statement though...

      • Ronin
        Ronin commented
        Editing a comment
        Things definitely wear. But I tend to agree Mal that it isn’t enough to matter. Unless of course you need repeating sales that is

    • #7
      Possibly wear where they fit into the portafilter or compression of the upper rounded edge from being beaten on the knock box.

      Otherwise it could be like the 10,000 year old, pink Himalayan salt that was mined just in time to package it before its 2021 use by date.

      Comment


      • #8
        Is it possible that the holes could 'wear' and get larger? VST are such high precision.

        Wear occurring not just through friction, but even stainless steel can corrode and pit slightly when in contact with heat, acid and water over a long enough time period.

        Would be interested in a flow rate side by side comparison of a new basket vs a well used one.

        Comment


        • #9
          If it took millions of years for water to form the grand canyon I don't think it'll take 2 years for water and coffee (which gets crushed by SS burrs mind you) to destroy a basket

          Comment


          • #10
            Interesting subject and my initial reaction was like Mal, they last nearly forever, but Ronin's point also makes sense. Was watching this thread with interest hoping to learn something. I don't believe tamping bows baskets as if you tamped at 30lb as often suggested and a tamper or basket is roughly 3 square inches, you are getting 10lb sq in. 9 bar is about 130lb sq in, far more likely to bow the bottom.

            A few minutes googling showed the La Mazzocco Strada baskets, supposedly made by VST and meant to be 50% thicker than most, actually give a lifespan - only 120, 000 brews, or at my 6 household coffees a day, 54 years. Even allowing for ordinary thickness baskets I can expect 36 years!

            The flip side is this thread - https://www.home-barista.com/espress...via-t6762.html - which states Synesso baskets showing 0.0014 and 0.0015 holes new (assume inches as US site) were showing 0.0016 to 0.0018 after 21 months. They had no discernible taste difference from new and as one poster said if the holes are still smaller than the ground coffee the difference will be small and the Puck affecting flow more than the holes.

            Comment


            • Dimal
              Dimal commented
              Editing a comment
              Yep, can't see that a few ten-thousandths of an inch is going to make any difference. Makes you wonder a bit about who could even be bothered measuring this...

            • prh
              prh commented
              Editing a comment
              Dimal, probably the same people who spend thousands of dollars on a power cord for their home audiophile rig.

            • wirecutter23
              wirecutter23 commented
              Editing a comment
              Siri remind me in 35 years time to get a new basket haha

          • #11
            A few ten-thousandths of an inch may sound insignificant but if you do the math you'll find that with all else being equal those few ten-thousandths of an inch add up to a greater than 28% increased flow rate through the basket. For a precision basket I'd say that's a very significant change. A change that no doubt would have them performing well outside of their designed specs and would have seen them rejected had they measured that when manufactured.


            Java "Precision what?" phile
            Toys! I must have new toys!!!

            Comment


            • 338
              338 commented
              Editing a comment
              Javaphile, I don't know, but would the flow rate be more determined by the puck or the holes in the basket?

            • lancruiser
              lancruiser commented
              Editing a comment
              What are the characteristics of precision baskets?

              1. The holes are consistent in size within strict tolerance,
              2. The pattern and distance between holes are consistent within strict tolerance,
              3. Consistency between 2 baskets are within strict tolerance.

              Points 1 and 2 ensure even extraction assuming that coffee bed preparation is good. This contributes to better extraction in terms of higher TDS when compared to non-precision baskets. Point 3 ensures that when baskets of the same type is used in multiple group machines, the brew across different groups are consistent (assuming that the groups behave consistently), i.e. you can use the same grind settings for each basket.

              This is thinking out loud...

              Assuming that the basket do wear out over time and assuming that the wear on each hole is the same. For commercial multi-group machines, it would be difficult to maintain the same wear on all the baskets across the groups as some baskets may be used more than others. There will be a case to replace the baskets every so often.

              However, for the home barista, it may not matter if only 1 basket is ever used. If the wear is even, then points 1 and 2 still hold. If the holes becomes consistently larger, then the home barista just need to grind finer to maintain the desired brew time. The extraction will still be even.

            • Javaphile
              Javaphile commented
              Editing a comment
              338 The flow rate can be determined by either one, which is why I explicitly stated "with all else being equal those few ten-thousandths of an inch add up to a greater than 28% increased flow rate" (Emphasis added for this comment.)

              With Noonar's remarks in mind some quick back of the brain calcs show the 28% should actually read more like 68%.


              Java "Corrections 'R Us" phile

          • #12
            Agreed Java. Flow rate is related to the square of the square of the radius from memory. Any non-standard radii (for whatever reason) will perform differently to those that are standard. Not sure how this effects espresso but it is sure to have some impact. Would like to know also.
            Last edited by noonar; 16 November 2020, 05:48 PM. Reason: typo

            Comment


            • #13
              Just one square. The area of a circle = π r2 (pi radiussquared).


              Java "circlesquared" phile
              Toys! I must have new toys!!!

              Comment


              • #14
                I'm talking flow not area.

                Comment


                • Javaphile
                  Javaphile commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ah my bad, it was late at night and my head's all stuffed up from some bug and I missed that. I do believe you're right as I seem to recall an r^4 in the flow rate by pressure equation.


                  Java "Sniffling away" phile

              • #15
                ...and thus was born the Great Coffee Snobs Basket Wear Blind Tasting Challenge of 2020.

                Comment


                • SanderP
                  SanderP commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Get the Hoff onto it

                  Cheers
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