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  • #31
    Have you tried putting a humidifier next to your grinder? Those early humid days were so consistent! ??

    I can’t remember, are you using any distribution techniques?

    I wouldn’t have that much variance. Over the course of a work-week, I’d say only 1 of the 20 shots would vary by more than a couple of seconds.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Kit666 View Post
      Are most people seeing similar results? Or are most people getting much better consistency in their extractions?
      In case it helps, I tracked similar data for a period; several rows from that table follow.

      Click image for larger version

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      This is with a single dosing grinder, so I can switch beans at will. During the period shown above I was doing some experiments on dose while keeping grind constant.

      Is it possible that the time spent in the hopper affects the outcome (e.g. fresh from bag vs several days sitting in the hopper)?
      Is it possible that the level of beans in the hopper affects grind size or consistency?

      I also note that in your table, shot times seem to be weakly correlated with ambient temperature - that is, cooler temperature ~= longer shot times.

      Brett

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      • #33
        Is it possible that the time spent in the hopper affects the outcome (e.g. fresh from bag vs several days sitting in the hopper)?
        Is it possible that the level of beans in the hopper affects grind size or consistency?

        Java "Yes to both questions" phile
        Toys! I must have new toys!!!

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        • #34
          Thanks guys.

          I also initially thought ambient temperature and humidity was affecting the extraction. But now I'm not so sure.

          While I don't have a single dose grinder, I always single dose (beans never sit in my hopper), so from that perspective, even though I know it's not optimal, it is consistently not optimal
          I'm seeing large variances intra day and sometimes shot to shot (less so shot to shot), so that rules out bean freshness

          My technique is always the same:
          - grind into basket
          - tap PF on the bench top to settle and distribute grinds
          - use distribution tool
          - tamp very carefully

          based on the commentary above, there's definitely something wrong on my end... I just don't know what!

          Here's a sample of the log from the past two days to demonstrate what I'm referring to above
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          • #35
            Yeah, look... i’ve tried nothing and I’m all out of ideas!

            Maybe its worth filling your hopper. I find some grinders can be really inconsistent if they don’t have some downward pressure. For the sake of science, just run with beans in the hopper for a few days?

            Yes, your beans will age over the test a bit faster than if they’re airtight, but at least you’re checking another variable of the list!

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            • #36
              Was literally just about to say what emslibbles said! Definitely try hopper dosing. Most grinders are designed for this use, but many insist on single dosing. It certainly can work for some grinders and not be an issue (especially ones designed specifically for it), but really hopper dosing I think will get you much more consistency.

              And you do not have to leave the beans in the hopper all the time, not at all . After you've finished making coffees, you can easily close the hopper gate and pour the beans back in their bag. And it's easy enough to get the leftover beans in the throat of the grinder out too, I had/still have a K3 and it was an easy process.

              There is a reason why it extracts faster when single dosing compared to hopper dosing on the same grind setting, it's certainly not grinding the beans the same so to speak. When I switched to hopper dosing my consistency was night and day different. Hoping that's the issue here, but see how you go

              Ps. Oh and make sure you weigh the actual dose that's in the basket, rather than assume it's the correct weight because the grinder was grinding for the same time period

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              • #37
                Perhaps I should clarify.
                I've been troubleshooting inconsistent extractions for over a year.
                I did not experience this level of inconsistency over the previous 8 years of me using that particular setup.

                Over the course of the year (which coincided with covid and spending much more time at home) I've tried changing numerous aspects of my technique with little success. I've introduced weighing dose, weighing extractions, and adding a distributor tool (amongst other things... eBay loves me right now).
                I've also been spending a lot of time ensuring good and consistent technique to minimise error on my part.

                This all culminated in me changing machines and grinder burrs early this year.

                So I certainly have been trying different things.
                The minimal change in technique after starting a log is to methodically build a data set before changing one single aspect and then building another dataset.

                While I take your point that I should try hopper dosing, I have been single dosing the previous 8 years. But yes, I'm a little out of ideas at this point in time so I'm looking to try that as the next thing to change and log. Thanks for the suggestion!
                ​​​​​​

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Kit666 View Post
                  Perhaps I should clarify. I've been troubleshooting inconsistent extractions for over a year. I did not experience this level of inconsistency over the previous 8 years of me using that particular setup. Over the course of the year (which coincided with covid and spending much more time at home) I've tried changing numerous aspects of my technique with little success. I've introduced weighing dose, weighing extractions, and adding a distributor tool (amongst other things... eBay loves me right now). I've also been spending a lot of time ensuring good and consistent technique to minimise error on my part. This all culminated in me changing machines and grinder burrs early this year. So I certainly have been trying different things. The minimal change in technique after starting a log is to methodically build a data set before changing one single aspect and then building another dataset. While I take your point that I should try hopper dosing, I have been single dosing the previous 8 years. But yes, I'm a little out of ideas at this point in time so I'm looking to try that as the next thing to change and log. Thanks for the suggestion! ​​​​​​
                  Ah apologies, didn't realise you'd be using that same setup and technique for all those years. Yeah it's a bit of a headscratcher... I do remember with my K3 I did start getting inconsistent shots and I got new burrs eventually to see if that would sort it, after a bit of running in the shots eventually did settle (I think I bought a kilo of low quality beans to grind through too). See how the new burrs go after settling. Could be a machine issue but not too sure... you mentioned you bought a new machine recently so that wouldn't make much sense though... good luck!

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                  • #39
                    Ah I completely forgot, I started a thread a few years ago about my K3 and inconsistent shots, feel free to read it! Although I can summarise the end, got new burrs, still getting inconsistent shots for a bit, but then eventually they completely settled

                    I have had my fair share of grinder issues over the years so can understand the frustration...

                    Thread here if interested:

                    https://coffeesnobs.com.au/forum/equ...ly-burr-change

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                    • #40
                      Thanks.
                      I certainly think it's my grinder/burrs is a factor. And perhaps using beans that are too fresh.

                      I bought the K3 new and estimate that over the past 8 or so years ran somewhere between 100-130kgs through it. I didn't think the burrs were worn but changed them anyway.

                      I have now ran around 3kg through the new burrs and have noticed a change in grind (much less clumping). This is also a reason why I haven't changed technique recently, I was trying to demonstrate whether the burrs are breaking in and whether this is a factor
                      I'll continue testing... Thanks guys!


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