Thank you for this response.
I made some changes today to my approach -- taking in yours and others feedback. I've also started making notes each time I make a brew, a few brief notes of any changes I made, etc. I.e. I adjusted the amount by +0.5s grind, moved slightly coarser, etc.
Most notably, i dug out my 'hand-puck' (flat one side, raised pattern on the other). Reset it back to zero, extending the flat side as much as I could. Also, by pressing down on a scale, I realised that my tamping was far, far too light. To be honest, it was probably just enough to lightly compress, than actually form a proper puck.
The two coffees today which I made were both what I would classify as 'perfect'. The extractions started along the outside, slowly moved inwards, the crema was visible and it made an amazing, and clean, funnel with really nice light/dark stripes. With no mess (beside one or two drops). Taste was really, really good. To be honest, the taste has never been my biggest gripe/issue - some extractions better than others - it was more the extreme mess and quality of the extraction.
The beans I'm using were roasted about 1.5 weeks ago so pretty much as fresh as I could easily get -- but as they're also my favourite type -- I'm OK to sacrifice ultra-freshness.
I do have reservations that the hand-puck tamp does not reach deep enough (as the black rim is wider than the metal plates). The default breville tamper doesn't have any edging so although it is my regular tamper, I suspect it is producing uneven levelling.
For now, my focus will be re-baselining at where i'm currently getting it. I would like to try and slightly extend the extraction time by a few seconds so will adjust the variables and continue.
"Take notes as your memory will confuse the issue.
Believe me. Then you 2nd guess. Then head down a rabbit hole."
This comment resonated with me a lot. Never have i agreed more with a comment about making a good coffee!
I'm away for the weekend, but will keep you posted. I sincerely appreciate the time you have afforded me on this journey.
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Tamper & Portafilter Basket - Need some help
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Hi Mike, the tamp pressure dosn't seem to make much diffference e.g. 5kg or 20kg seems to produce pretty much the same result. Where most people go wrong with tamping is being uneven with the pressure. Post tamp, just look inside the basket and see if the puck is at an even height around the basket. If it is then you tamped evenly. LIke many others, I use a self levelling tamper which, assuming that it's set corrently, makes it very easy to apply even pressure. That's useful because it takes one variable out of a list of variables. "Eazy Tamp" is an Australian company that makes very high quality self levelling tampers.
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Mike Remember tamping I assess as only a 1%'er of the puck recipe.
There's far more to be gained from first nailing the optimal dose for the basket / machine characteristics.
In my recipes I start with a light tamp, slightly finer grind. Check what the pre infusion time is, note the shot flow in the early stages of the shot eye the flow in mid and end of the shot. Is it remaining relatively consistent ? Of course faster at the end but a consistent behaviour.
Taste the outcome. Where does the taste sit on your palate? Balanced shot? Depth of flavour? Nice lingering after taste?
All of that gives you an insight to where your recipe sits and where you may choose to make subtle changes.
Small incremental changes will lead you more often than not in a (right?) direction That then is more easily assessed if found later to be incorrect for your tastes.
Change only one thing at a time. Whilst your learning / yet to experience the joy of knowingly how to nail a shot / what change to make / that change did what I expected it would etc. .......Take notes as your memory will confuse the issue.
Believe me. Then you 2nd guess. Then head down a rabbit hole.
The best Fresh quality roast beans Will make it easier. They are more forgiving. Have a wider 'Grind Window', hold up throughout the shot further.
Andy's roasts here are of unquestionable quality and freshness, therefore take the biggest issue straight out of play.
To answer your Question directly - Tamp by standing side on to the bench, lift your body by the outer foot standing on its toes. That will broadly approximate the 'often quoted' tamp weight of 30lbs and save your back !
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Thank you for the response, i've added some comments above in boldOriginally posted by EspressoAdventurer View PostWelcome to the forum Mike. Hope you get much out of it as many 1000's have !
More info please. What exactly to you is 'A Clean Pour'? A nice clean extraction with little-to-know spurting and spraying with a substantial amount of the pour going over the benchmachine.
I assume a pour that is uneven in nature thorough out the duration....
not speeding up, slowing down noticeably, spurting etc.? Correct - from what i've seen, it starts along the outer ring of the basket, works to the middle and is an even funnel down in to the cup.
As said prev -
The Tamp is a 1%'er in the whole puck prep / your recipe.
Tho a poor fitting Tamper is probably worse than tamping with a spoon - which it is possible to do btw.
I'd put aside thoughts around the basket for the moment. As well as the stated 18g volume.
Test and decide Dose Qty for yourself., to suit your machine, grinder, bean combination.
Search for the 5c test. Try it.
Your issue will almost certainly reside around -
Creating the correct amount of resistance (in the puck) to match the pressure / flow of your machine. If you don't mind me asking, how do you know how much pressure to apply when tamping in to a puck? Is there a way to determine how far down you should be pressing?
AKa when you bring in another machine, No Other change(s) you get a different shot / flow characteristic.
Mind you the only real test is flavour in the shot! Taste each and every shot as you refine along the way.
GL. report your findings back here for others to learn from.
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Is your temporary tool something with thick wires? They could be causing channeling which is reducing shot time. Has the taste changed at all? I've sent you a PM about the tamper as it's a non-sponsor link.
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Edit above -
"I assume a pour that is uneven.....'
Obv read as -Even !
doh!
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Welcome to the forum Mike. Hope you get much out of it as many 1000's have !
More info please. What exactly to you is 'A Clean Pour'?
I assume a pour that is uneven in nature thorough out the duration....
not speeding up, slowing down noticeably, spurting etc.?
As said prev -
The Tamp is a 1%'er in the whole puck prep / your recipe.
Tho a poor fitting Tamper is probably worse than tamping with a spoon - which it is possible to do btw.
I'd put aside thoughts around the basket for the moment. As well as the stated 18g volume.
Test and decide Dose Qty for yourself., to suit your machine, grinder, bean combination.
Search for the 5c test. Try it.
Your issue will almost certainly reside around -
Creating the correct amount of resistance (in the puck) to match the pressure / flow of your machine.
AKa when you bring in another machine, No Other change(s) you get a different shot / flow characteristic.
Mind you the only real test is flavour in the shot! Taste each and every shot as you refine along the way.
GL. report your findings back here for others to learn from.
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Thank you for the response. So based on your comments and process of elimination,Originally posted by level3ninja View PostThe Pesado baskets are made by IMS, and IMS baskets no k are the best you can buy for the 54mm Breville machines. The grinder in your machine likely necessitates WDT prior to tamping. You'll want a WDT tool with 0.25-0.4mm needles.
The stock tamper certainly won't be helping either. A self-levelling tamper will be a big improvement. Try and get a 53.3mm tamper if you can (available on AliExpress for around $80), otherwise 53mm will do.- amount of coffee is fine - I measure this out and have a dosing cup to transfer the grinds
- basket is ok
- consistency of grind from machine
- Tamping and technique
in terms of the tampers themselves, is there a specific one you would recommend?
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The Pesado baskets are made by IMS, and IMS baskets are the best you can buy for the 54mm Breville machines. The grinder in your machine likely necessitates WDT prior to tamping. You'll want a WDT tool with 0.25-0.4mm needles.
The stock tamper certainly won't be helping either. A self-levelling tamper will be a big improvement. Try and get a 53.3mm tamper if you can (available on AliExpress for around $80), otherwise 53mm will do.
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Hi!Originally posted by amberale View PostHi Mike, welcome to the rabbit hole.
What grinder are you using?
It will probably have more effect on your output than your basket.
The grinder i'm using is the built-in on the Breville Barista Pro (BES878).
I mostly use the same beans (ONA - Maple) so find i don't need to tweak too much between bags. Interestingly, when experimenting with a friends machine i've ground beans in mine, and extracted in theirs. Which leads me to back to user error OR the basket i'm using isn't that great. I mean the grinder in the machine may not be the world's best but it doesn't seem to be causing problems.
My gut feeling, is its tamping technique and possibly basket as well? Occasionally I get beautiful extractions but to save the mess, i have a 100mm cup which i hold up to the metal ring at the bottom of the portafilter to catch the extraction. I get 50ml between 24-28seconds with a beautiful crema -- it just doesn't come out clean.
Mike
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Hi Mike, welcome to the rabbit hole.
What grinder are you using?
It will probably have more effect on your output than your basket.
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Tamper & Portafilter Basket - Need some help
Hi All
About a year ago we purchased a Breville Barista Pro -- it's our first proper machine after previously owning a Nespresso pod machine.
Recently I upgraded to:
* Pesado Naked Portafilter (54mm)
* 18g basket (bought alongside the Portafilter)
My reason for seeking guidance is i'm not completely sold on the current basket i'm using. I'm happy to admit an element may be that i'm using the standard breville tamper AND a combination of user error. While I get a great pour out of the machine, I just feel it could be that bit extra better.
Specifically, i'm looking at getting a new tamper as well as a better basket. I'm not saying the pesado basket is bad but just I cannot get a clean pour out of it yet with a friends machine and their basket + naked portafilter, I can get a near perfectly timed and clean extraction.
Questions:
1. Can someone explain -- in simple terms -- what the (g) measurement on the baskets is for? I would assume if you're exclusively pouring doubles, you'd only need a basket that holds 18g?
2. What would you say is the best 54mm basket for a naked portafilter (would need to be compatable with my Pesado naked PF as I don't particularly want to replace it? Any other good quality/reliable baskets you'd recommend?
3. In terms of tampers, I mostly use the standard breville one which came with the machine. I have a double sided puck I got pretty cheap online, however I struggle to get a better extraction than when using the standard breville one.
Appreciate the help in advance. I'm just quite lost/overwhelmed with all the options out there -- will continue to research however was hopeful someone here could help me make the right decision when upgraing some of the equipment.

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