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  • Bottomless portafilter spraying everywhere

    Hey guys,

    So I am using breville bes920 with niche zero grinder, I've been trying to use bottomless portafilter with vst 18g and this thing gets really messy, I'm not sure what I am doing wrong but I give the portafilter a few taps, use WDT tool and use Eazy tamp 5 star pro tamper and its spraying everywhere. The puck looks terrible afterwards I just got back to using the breville portafilter, any help guys or tips what I'm doing wrong? Cheers guys

  • #2
    What are your numbers like?
    Dose, time and weight out?

    Comment


    • #3
      U might want to post a video of your puck prep also if you are happy to via YouTube. I would guess either need to grind finer or improve wdt technique. Also how old are the beans? The vst can be an unforgiving monster if not treated just right.

      Comment


      • #4
        First Cab off the rank is -----
        How Fresh is the coffee ?
        Second is inappropriate dose.
        Then check grind setting.
        I know its a new grinder ...So
        Manually set / check / reset true zero. Manually means without powering up the unit.
        *Carefully rotate drive shaft manually.
        Mark notate true zero.
        1/ comeback to the appropriate first grind point. run a shot. notate.
        2/ move to the next trial grind point making it an appropriately significant movement.notate.
        run your second shot. note change in shot behaviour.
        3/ your strategy from there is fluid....but you get the drift.
        hopefully the benficial grind point is already identified as being in between the fist two points.


        Note I dont have Nor have never touched a niche prob dont ever care if i do either.

        Comment


        • #5
          It's all about the beans. I have a Breville Dual boiler as well, and regardless of puck prep, grinder type etc... it's all down to the beans. If it's fresh it'll be nice. If they are not fresh then it won't matter how well you prep, it's a mess.
          Also I have found it's quite sensitive to the roast - lighter roasts are very tricky to get right on the BDB as you will need to grind much finer (but not too fine as that will lead to channelling itself).

          It might sound like a waste, but if you have new tool like the bottomless PF (and/or your grinder and BDB combo is 'new') it wouldn't hurt to get some cheap(er) FRESH coffee from a local cafe to dial everything in and then go from there.

          Comment


          • EspressoAdventurer
            EspressoAdventurer commented
            Editing a comment
            All due respect Jason ....thats a well worn track here. And doesnt work.
            Think about you nailed it the first sentence. Five words.

            How about getting Dick Johnsons latest Mustang and going to Bathurst with some old retreads and dirty fuel full of water. Now lets try and set it up ready to do a Greg Murphy Lap of the Gods.....
            Then we'll fit the good stuff !

            The Older 'staler' the beans the finer the line is to nail the recipe for a slow drippy syrupy shot.
            Thats before we talk naked handle. Before we talk VST.
            Use the search button. This same Q in a hundred or more ways of asking comes up weekly and youll find thousands of threads.
            And you'll find the same human behaviour ....Ive just purchased the latest greatest unobtainium machine...think $$$$$$....cant wait...but first Ill just go to xyz supermarket and get their just in, just arrived fresh off the truck 11 months old roast beans.

            Right routine = 6 or so shots till your in the ballpark. 120g?
            Then creep up on the nailed shot over time.

            Supermarket beans means months or more of frustration.

          • EspressoAdventurer
            EspressoAdventurer commented
            Editing a comment
            Well Edited Jasiano.....good to see you too agree with the FRESH beans form a local cafe......and edited out the cheap superarket beans whilst I was adding further to my original comment.
            Ill note a person not worth spending time on assisting in future.
            good day to you sir.

            Oh and by the way cheaper fresh beans from a local cafe is highly likely to be last months roast that theyve bagged for others to use because they also have no idea of fresh stock rotation. Nor appropriate amounts to preorder for their varying volume needs.
            Thats alos come up here .....but then you dont need to search it do you.

          • jasiano
            jasiano commented
            Editing a comment
            ? EspressoAdventurer? Not sure if you're having a go at me or something...

            never said anything about supermarket beans or stale beans...
            and by 'cheaper' fresh beans from a cafe, I don't mean stuff that's been sitting on a shelf. They may have cheaper blends than others etc.

        • #6
          Here is a little checklist for channelling ... assumes your beans are between 5 and 30 days post roast. A video will help us diagnose too!

          Channeling or spurting then try
          a. Check your puck prep technique. Use a puck rake to distribute grinds evenly
          b. Check your tamping technique and make sure it’s even or use a self levelling tamper
          c. Decrease brew temperature 2 – 5 degrees (try a range)
          d. Check clearance at top of puck (a five cent coin resting on top of the puck should create a slight
          indent when the portafilter is placed in the group head and then removed) and if necessary
          change adjust the quality of ground beans or use a different basket size.
          e. Decrease grind size (grind finer)
          f. Make sure that your basket is dry and very warm before grinding
          g. Don’t tap the sides after you have tamped, it can create a small gap around the edge
          h. Don’t bump the portafilter when inserting into the group head (see above)
          i. Use a quality grinder the produces uniform coffee grounds
          j. Use a magic tumbler to shake the grounds and de-clump them

          Comment


          • #7
            Beans are fairly fresh as I bought them the other day Maker beans here in Melbourne, but I will make a video that way you guys can let me know what I need to fix up

            Comment


            • tompoland
              tompoland commented
              Editing a comment
              What is the roast date on the bag please?

          • #8
            Roast date is 19/5

            Comment


            • tompoland
              tompoland commented
              Editing a comment
              Roast depth? (Light medium or dark) and water temp please, assuming it is displayed. Thanks.

              In the meantime try grinding a lot coarser and drop temp by 5 degrees. Do those two things one at a time over two pours.

            • EspressoAdventurer
              EspressoAdventurer commented
              Editing a comment
              So Tical Ive tried looking Maker up. Little detail of consquent provided on their website.
              So can you recall if their roast equip. is a Fluid Air Bed or a traditional themal drum roaster?

              Reason I ask is releasing beans 2-3 4 even four days of roast should of triggered a basic direction to rest, when to use.
              Ive used my own roast 2 days onwards as a trial taste and whilst you expect they will improve certainly not objectionable taste.
              This is regarding thermal drum roast.
              Fluid Air bed can have different characteristics at least one Ive tried certainly did.

          • #9
            One thing to check is your shower screen. I recently cleaned mine and I was surprised at how much gunk there was (depite backlashing every week). The built-up coffee was blocking some of the large holes and causing the water to run faster through the screen in some areas vs others. This can contribute to channelling.

            If you simply run hot water out of the group head, does it come out in a nice even "shower" of small droplets, or does it come out in 2-4 streams and not evenly distributed across the entire shower screen? If the latter, then take the screen out and soak it in backflush detergent and then give it a good clean out.

            Comment


            • #10
              This is my puck indented pack this is 17g think I've been overdosing I usually 18g so since 17g still indented Click image for larger version

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              So I tried 16g and it was a bit muddy in the pic, set it on 15 on my niche zero, any ideas what else to try?
              Click image for larger version

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              Attached Files

              Comment


              • Blues1143
                Blues1143 commented
                Editing a comment
                Way way too coarse my friend, need to grind much finer.

              • tompoland
                tompoland commented
                Editing a comment
                a LOT finer. Give it a whirl at 10 on your niche and let us know the weight of grams out and pour time please.

              • tompoland
                tompoland commented
                Editing a comment
                That grind size is probably about right for a French press as opposed to espresso. An easy fix though!

            • #11
              I dose 18g I put the niche on 9, it came out quick there was a bit of channelling but not as bad 36g came out in about 11 seconds
              Attached Files

              Comment


              • Barry O'Speedwagon
                Barry O'Speedwagon commented
                Editing a comment
                recalibrate the Niche, you are probably a long way from the true zero. Then try grinding at 9-10.

              • Blues1143
                Blues1143 commented
                Editing a comment
                Barry O'Speedwagon is likely much more familiar with the Niche than I am, but that is still way to coarse, you need to get much much finer - may be worth doing a google search for some high res photos of espresso grounds so you know what to aim for.

              • tompoland
                tompoland commented
                Editing a comment
                Yikes, way too fast. Try 1 on the dial. But as BOS has recommended, even if that works, you will need to recalibrate.

            • #12
              Ok so I have recalibrated my niche to setting 10 and now no water pour through the shot on the portafilter for 30 seconds, the pressureon the machine is raising and when i pull the portafilter out its a bit muddy?

              Comment


              • #13
                Ok try setting 12

                Comment


                • #14
                  Originally posted by level3ninja View Post
                  Ok try setting 12
                  I put it on 13 same thing no water coming through the shot, just a little bit for 30 secs

                  Comment


                  • Blues1143
                    Blues1143 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    You just have to unfortunately be prepared to waste some coffee now to find the right grind size, keeping backing off in small increments while keeping everything else about your prep exactly the same and you will get there.
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