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Importance of PID

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  • #16
    Re: Importance of PID

    Nice charts, no doubt about it...

    Your little "Family" must come pretty close though Mark (just trying to recall the charts you posted after your most recent mod)...

    Mal.

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    • #17
      Re: Importance of PID

      Thanks Guys, I really appreciate your patience in the detailed explanations. I felt bad about not having done more research so I have been reading up about HX machines from the Coffee Geek & Home Barista sites. I am at a disadvantage here because whilst I have used a commercial machine in my Barista course I have no experience whatever with a Home-level machine & it is clear that they are quite different.
      The Coffee Geek article says in part about Single-boilers "The downfall is that to go from steam mode to coffee mode, the unit needs to cool or water needs to be run through the steam wand so that the temp of the water is lowered for espresso extraction" I had no idea that water could be run through the steam wand - why would you want to do this? I am assuming there is a way to switch water through the wand for the purpose of getting rid of the too-hot water.
      The article then goes on with some confusing stuff (meant to be humourous) about extracting espresso in steam mode (is this possible?) & blowing up the group. How would this happen? I am assuming it is all to do with switching back & forth between modes.
      In relation to the graph - what is this saying? Is this the temp of the water at the group? portafilter?

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      • #18
        Re: Importance of PID

        Originally posted by Mal link=1223588081/0#15 date=1223798061
        Nice charts, no doubt about it...

        Your little "Family" must come pretty close though Mark (just trying to recall the charts you posted after your most recent mod)...

        Mal.
        I am not worthy.

        The Faema couldnt come close to performing well with the WBC protocol. The WBC protocol simulates shot pulling from the walk-up one off to full commercial work load, so getting all shots to be within 0.5 C is actually quite amasing. But temperature is just one aspect of this machine. He also has made a pressure profiling pump, so can dial the brew pressure exactly as he wants it.

        This machine is essentially a laboratory experiment. Apparently it no longer steams too well either. Interesting from an academic perspective, but not very practical.

        Cheers,

        Mark.

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        • #19
          Re: Importance of PID

          Originally posted by Sparky link=1223588081/0#17 date=1223813941
          I am not worthy.
          Dont know about that Mark... Given the time that Andy Schecter probably put into this :

          Originally posted by Sparky link=1223588081/0#17 date=1223813941
          This machine is essentially a laboratory experiment. Apparently it no longer steams too well either. Interesting from an academic perspective, but not very practical.
          Yep, realised that mate but very interesting for we coffee geeks....

          Mal.

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          • #20
            Re: Importance of PID

            Originally posted by Rocky link=1223588081/0#16 date=1223812009
            The Coffee Geek article says in part about Single-boilers "The downfall is that to go from steam mode to coffee mode, the unit needs to cool or water needs to be run through the steam wand so that the temp of the water is lowered for espresso extraction" I had no idea that water could be run through the steam wand - why would you want to do this? I am assuming there is a way to switch water through the wand for the purpose of getting rid of the too-hot water.
            This is the only way to cool the Boiler and Group down after using Steam mode with this type of machine. They have been designed with the intention that the owner will first pull, say 2-4 shots, then switch to Steam mode to texture the milk for those shots being converted to Lattes, Cappuccinos or whatever. I guess the thinking is that if you want to produce more shots continuously and simultaneously texture milk for milk based coffees, you will step up to a machine that has been designed from the outset to cope with this mode of "normal" use. Naturally, this has never stopped anyone from optimising their use of a Silvia style machine to extract more than a handful of shots for conversion to milk coffees. Therere always ways and means of modifying ones procedure to get out of a machine what you desire...

            Originally posted by Sparky link=1223588081/0#17 date=1223813941
            The article then goes on with some confusing stuff (meant to be humourous) about extracting espresso in steam mode (is this possible?) & blowing up the group. How would this happen? I am assuming it is all to do with switching back & forth between modes.
            Hmmm.... Cant see that its possible to blow-up the Group by trying to pull shots with excessively hot water thats flashing to steam. You may see the occasional venting off of steam if the Group Gasket is substandard but that would be about it. It just sounds to me as though someone was playing around for the sake of it mate and yes, they were probably switching from the Steam mode immediately prior to pulling the shot, for some odd reason :-?

            Originally posted by Sparky link=1223588081/0#17 date=1223813941
            In relation to the graph - what is this saying? Is this the temp of the water at the group? portafilter?
            Yes. The Temp. right at the top of the coffee puck to be exact. As Sparky said though, this is purely a laboratory machine and not representative of anything very useful outside of a lab.....

            Mal.

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