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  • #16
    Re: Dosing Levels

    true luca
    similar to how people gave the minore flak for marketing gimmicks (e61 DB with temp controller) but seem so excited about the vbm DB with temp controller....both machines arent really designed for DB configurations but hey...

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    • #17
      Re: Dosing Levels

      Ive had no trouble with any edges on my Expobar and I did use a Vibiemme at the AromaFest and the showerscreen seemed lower to me.
      My first attempt at a shot with my usual dosing technique choked the machine completely.
      I dosed lower on the next attempt and all worked as expected.



      I do consider my Expobar value for money because I lean towards function over form.
      If someone likes bling then they may lean the other way.

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      • #18
        Re: Dosing Levels

        Originally posted by luca link=1231140889/0#14 date=1231376406

        Its interesting that whenever people talk about expobars online they are quick to point out that their high value for money is (apparently) accompanied by flaws like the low shower screen and the poor fit and finish, yet these flaws seem to be glossed over when people mention the much more expensive vibiemmes.  I got the impression that the vibiemmes had a lower screen that the expobars, but I havent used either machine that much, so I didnt want to say anything until someone confirmed it.  As for fit and finish, both machines draw flak for not having rolled edges, but I cant remember the expobars unfinished edges being as painful when carrying the machine as the vibiemme.  Maybe, at least in this respect, people prefer to imagine their emperors wearing clothes.

        Cheers,

        Luca
        Luca,

        Sounds to me more like people are insecure about their own purchases. Id never suggest that someone elses "value for money" made for cutting corners during production. To me, we should just be glad that another person has taken another step down the path of their coffee journey and be excited with them. After all, isnt the coffee what its all about?

        I mountain bike and so have had this same conversation about bikes many times. The bike is just a way to get out on the trail - its the ride itself that counts.

        Grant

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        • #19
          Re: Dosing Levels

          Hi Grant,

          It the coffee is what its all about, there should be no problem with calling a spade a spade ... provided that it happens across the board.

          In order to deliver the best quality coffee in the easiest way, you have to have a machine.  Many, many people use this web page to gather information on machines and I think that most people would have the impression that the vibiemme is superior to the expobar in terms of fit and finish and shower screen height.  To the extent that that sways their decision, it seems to me that camaraderie, politeness or whatever you want to call it could well cost new members several hundred dollars a pop.

          Once you are no longer in the market for a machine, it may well be that theres not much point in talking about them.  But people should take into account that their waxing lyrical, talking in absolutes without having relevant comparisons and fanboy-ism can mislead others who are shopping for machines.  Again, to the extent that people base their decisions on incorrect information, we arent talking about mere words and hurt feelings - we are talking about hundreds of dollars.

          Personally, I dont really have an interest in any of the machines in this thread.  I own neither, am not in the market for a new machine and do not sell machines, but I think that I have used almost every prosumer machine on the Australian market for at least a few shots.  Generally, I tend to avoid posting comparisons between machines because the owners (and sometimes the vendors) invariably get upset.  Perhaps I should have kept my trap shut now.

          Cheers,

          Luca

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          • #20
            Re: Dosing Levels

            Originally posted by luca link=1231140889/0#18 date=1231386277
            It the coffee is what its all about, there should be no problem with calling a spade a spade ... provided that it happens across the board.
            Agreed. What I was attempting to say in my last post, is that when "these flaws seem to be glossed over when people mention the much more expensive..." its probably because people have invested their own dollars, and dont want to examine flaws in their own machines, or conversely feel the need to point out flaws in other machines to justify the money they have spent on their own.

            Originally posted by luca link=1231140889/0#18 date=1231386277
            But people should take into account that their waxing lyrical, talking in absolutes without having relevant comparisons and fanboy-ism can mislead others who are shopping for machines.  Again, to the extent that people base their decisions on incorrect information, we arent talking about mere words and hurt feelings - we are talking about hundreds of dollars.
            Fair point Id hope that people who read a lot of these posts (such as my other "yay I got a new machine" thread) would realise that with a new machine comes excitement. Im hoping to be able to post a "six months later" thread and give a factual review of what Ive discovered over that period, but I can see that with my emotional investment into the machine it will be hard to be purely objective.

            Originally posted by luca link=1231140889/0#18 date=1231386277
            Perhaps I should have kept my trap shut now.
            Not at all! I need something to keep me distracted at work today

            Grant

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            • #21
              Re: Dosing Levels

              I will add a quick point

              You need to learn how to drive
              Every time you get a new make or model
              You need to relearn how to drive

              This also applies to espresso machines
              KK

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              • #22
                Re: Dosing Levels

                Ill leave you with a little barista gem

                First half of the pour represents grind setting, second half of the pour represents dose. If your coffee is speeding up too fast at the end and losing all its colour, then your dose is too low....funny isnt it...youve dosed up and it seems you still havent got enough coffee in the basket.

                2 things you can do.

                1) grind finer and dose lower....this will pretty much be on the borderline of choking the beginning of your shot, but have faith, it will pull through.

                2) Get a new portafilter where you can insert deeper baskets like LM baskets.

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                • #23
                  Re: Dosing Levels

                  Originally posted by 1D3F3922252F394A0 link=1231140889/21#21 date=1232439339
                  First half of the pour represents grind setting, second half of the pour represents dose. If your coffee is speeding up too fast at the end and losing all its colour, then your dose is too low....funny isnt it...youve dosed up and it seems you still havent got enough coffee in the basket.Sad
                  Is this for real? I bought some beans as a side from my home roast and this is happening.

                  Originally posted by 1D3F3922252F394A0 link=1231140889/21#21 date=1232439339
                  2 things you can do.

                  1) grind finer and dose lower....this will pretty much be on the borderline of choking the beginning of your shot, but have faith, it will pull through.
                  I will try both these out tomorrow morning. Ive got a naked pf with a triple LM basket, might be time to use it.

                  hey fringe dweller, did you try this?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Dosing Levels

                    Just for your interest, the shower screen sits 10mm below the top of your basket on a VBM Domobar Super.

                    Measure and mark 10mm above the bottom of your tamper and you will have a datum to work out your dosing and tamping.

                    The Pullman tampers have rings on them to use!
                    FYI the Pullman Barister tamper base is 10mm thick.

                    Since getting this measurment and dosing/tamping to 10mm below the basket ridge, my shots have improved in a major way

                    The only adjustments I make now are grind settings to tweek a given bean or blend.

                    Warren.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Dosing Levels

                      Originally posted by 707B6C7B787F7F741A0 link=1231140889/22#22 date=1234440041
                      hey fringe dweller, did you try this?  
                      Ive had a bit of a time/coffee deficit of late  - I truly appreciate someone who does this for a living chiming in to help out. Ive been slowly down dosing and grinding finer each time I make a coffee, but havent had the time to put in a focused effort to blow through a kilo of beans while playing

                      Originally posted by 6E756A6972756E1A0 link=1231140889/23#23 date=1234443639
                      Just for your interest, the shower screen sits 10mm below the top of your basket on a VBM Domobar Super.

                      Measure and mark 10mm above the bottom of your tamper and you will have a datum to work out your dosing and tamping.
                      Thanks Warren - Ill give that a shot. I have one of the earlier Pullman tampers, so Im not sure how thick it is. Will have to measure it!

                      Westmead huh? We should get together for some shot tasting/testing sometime.

                      Grant

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                      • #26
                        Re: Dosing Levels

                        Grant.

                        on a Deluxe tamper the rings are 7,9 and 11 mm above the bottom face.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Dosing Levels

                          Wait - you mean I have to dose between the rings? Tut, tut..

                          Grant

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                          • #28
                            Re: Dosing Levels

                            Originally posted by 7D66797A61667D090 link=1231140889/23#23 date=1234443639
                            Just for your interest, the shower screen sits 10mm below the top of your basket on a VBM Domobar Super.

                            That is a very valuable tip. How did you measure it? I would like to be able to make such a measurement for other machines which I am considering purchasing.

                            Thanks

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                            • #29
                              Re: Dosing Levels

                              Originally posted by 574C494C12230 link=1231140889/27#27 date=1234488186
                              Originally posted by 7D66797A61667D090 link=1231140889/23#23 date=1234443639
                              Just for your interest, the shower screen sits 10mm below the top of your basket on a VBM Domobar Super.

                              That is a very valuable tip. How did you measure it? I would like to be able to make such a measurement for other machines which I am considering purchasing.

                              Thanks
                              Experience and trial and error... Fill / Tamp and then lock in.. Undo and check to see if you have a shower screen impression.. When you have it right... You can then measure...

                              Beans and grind will have an impact ( on the actual outcome) as well as how old / worn you group seal is... Every thing in the coffee process has a level of dynamic variables... Many of teh things you might assume are constant are in fact variable... You have to be aware and able to read all the factors and make minor adjustments as you go along, if your after perfection.




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                              • #30
                                Re: Dosing Levels

                                Originally posted by 46626B6B68685246627E60620D0 link=1231140889/11#11 date=1231333745
                                On my Bezzera Galatea
                                I need to dose to a level of 8mm from the top of the basket to the top of the puck, otherwise I have problems

                                Get the right level by experimenting and use that as a future reference point

                                I should point out that the correct puck level is just under by a hairs whisker from the screen when PF is locked in
                                Some may also advocate just touching the screen by a hairs whisker

                                KK

                                To quote myself
                                I said the same thing back up on post 11
                                KK

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