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Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

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  • TC
    replied
    Our pleasure Den78. Thanks for the kind words!

    Our tech Phil does amazing work and I am thrilled you're happy. I'll pass your comments onto him.

    Your machine is now running as it should have when you purchased it. Hopefully, it should keep upgraditis at bay for a little longer.

    Cheers

    Chris

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  • tiddler2
    replied
    Congratulations on your machine working again, unfortunately, you'll have to find another reason for a shiny new one.

    Leave a comment:


  • den78
    replied
    Update: I'm back, and now at an appropriate brewing temp!

    Picked up the Perfetta from Talk Coffee on the weekend, and despite the apparent corrosion on the boiler element terminal, it was actually the thermostat that was failing. The machine had been getting hotter and hotter lately and I had been "managing" it by turning it off for a few minutes while grinding etc.

    So, a new thermostat, service on the lever and temp calibration, and the machine is now singing better than it ever has (thanks Chris!). Someone even gave the exterior a good polish!

    In that few weeks without home espresso (I broke my Presso in the first week, no doubt trying to get to 9 bars with plastic internals) I had many moments of weakness, and it's a miracle I don't currently have a Bezzera Strega-sized hole in my wallet. I'm now really glad I didn't pull the trigger, as the reduced temp has a vastly different (improved) set of characteristics in the cup, and now it's back to changing existing variables in the form of grind, dose, tamp, roast length and even perhaps grinder upgrade (from a Rocky) before I move onto shinier machines. Bought a couple of EP Precision baskets and have ordered the Cafelat naked PF from CS.

    And I'm prepared for my partner to keep rolling her eyes the way she does when I show her youtube clips of naked PF pours and other coffee p0rn!

    Dennis

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  • den78
    replied
    Thanks everyone for all the quick responses so far. Yep, evidence stacking up for a dead (ish) boiler element. Think you're right, Dan, as the surge protection board wasn't shutting off but the safety switch at the board (ground faults right?).

    And water finding it's way down through the element makes sense as well, as the machine would have to be submerged in two inches of water for the terminal to get that wet.

    Is element replacement a straightforward procedure? I assume it can be removed through that same open panel.

    Cheers everyone.
    Dennis

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  • Danieln
    replied
    Hi Dennis,

    In my humble experience as a sparky, if RCD trips, fault more often than not in an appliance with a heating element.

    Note: RCD/safety switch detects faults, circuit breaker detects overload of circuit - 2 different things.

    More than likely heating element causing the problem. Replace the element with new and it'll be as good as gold.

    Cheers
    Dan

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Looks suspiciously like the outer casing of the element is porous as Chris mentioned above. Seems as though the water is finding its way through to the terminal via the element insulation compound. Don't think that is all corrosion but mostly staining from the water at the bottom of the boiler...

    Mal.

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  • rodw
    replied
    I would start by cleaning the terminal and the screw post back to shiny metal and see how it goes before you panic. It is possible that the corrosion has increased the resistance so the current draw has increased enough to trip the circuit breaker. I'd look into some anti corrosion treatment. I think Inox makes something.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Hi Dennis,

    Chances are that when the element warms, it becomes porous. Most likely it's had it.

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  • den78
    replied
    Hi all,

    First, the reason I'm reigniting this ancient thread rather than posting anew is that I realised I was one of those long time forum lurkers that occasionally asks for advice and then never reverts with the outcome of their research.

    Sorry.

    I did end up finding a deal on a Diadema Perfetta and Rocky doserless from a local cafe/roaster and have had five years drinking great shots, even getting my partner back into coffee (from weak lattes to now using the double basket) and toddlers who can comment on my tamping technique and know the real meaning of "don't touch that - it's hot".

    Until......

    ...and this is the other more selfish reason for posting...


    ...last week I got back from a week away and found switching on the machine trips the safety switch. I reset a few times and then managed to make a normal espresso (machine runs slightly hot of late but that's another issue).

    The next day I am unable to use the machine without tripping the safety switch at all. Reading other CS posts I look to the low water microswitch, and yes the machine turns on fine when the heating element is off but then trips as soon as I depress the switch. I've had others recently use the machine and leave it in strange states (lever up, machine off, steam heating on etc) and suspected water damage from tank overfill or heating element damage from lack of boiler priming. The microswitch was quite rusted but I used a mulitmeter (mothballed since switching from a corretto to a Behmor) to confirm continuity - so the switch is fine.

    The guts seemed quite clean but there was some water stains/rust at the bottom. Taking off the bottom grill and the covers on the element terminals revealed the picture below.

    As you can see one terminal is badly corroded while the other is clean as a whistle. Has anyone seen this before? It's been a long time since high school chemistry but the fact it's one and not the other terminal seems to imply a fuel cell-type oxidation rather than water damage (no?). A compromised heating element? The multimeter confirmed there is still continuity between the two element terminals, and strangely I was able to make a normal hot coffee that initial time after the problems began so the element isn't completely blown.

    Any help would be much appreciated. Hopefully it can still be salvaged with a fix/service etc.

    (And this time I'll update on the outcome!)

    Cheers,
    Dennis
    Attached Files

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  • GregWormald
    replied
    Re: Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

    Let me echo Chriss input. While my upgraditis has run rampant a number of times ;D, Chris has always been a valuable information resource with no pressure to buy, buy, buy, that I could discern.

    Greg

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  • TC
    replied
    Re: Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

    Hi Dennis,

    Come visit!

    Id be delighted to assist and will ensure that you leave only with the right machine for you and your budget....

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Identity
    replied
    Re: Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

    Originally posted by 48757971631A0 link=1248932752/12#12 date=1249107522
    bought the Perfetta because research indicated that it outshone the competition on pretty well any parameter
    umm what research, and how rigorous was it?

    Leave a comment:


  • den78
    replied
    Re: Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

    Thanks again for all the views.  I probably agree that a SB machine would suffice for my useage, and am attracted to the slightler shorter heat-up time.  I also note hotshods point about increasing useage after upgrading, and its got me thinking about getting a second grinder for decaf (well, upgrading my grinder and relegating the sunbeam to decaf).  Might take the risk on one of those cheapish Cunill Tranquilos floating about.  My partner doesnt drink coffee at the moment because of the caffeine, and at 4 weeks old my son is probably a bit too young (not going there with the expressed milk babycino - "expresso").  So with the addition of a second grinder and better steaming capability I could easily see consumption similar to you guys hotshod and flynn.

    I know the next bit of advice will be to get to a sponsor to actually try some of these machines.  I live quite close to Talk Coffee, but have a fear that Id leave with much much more than I intended to get.  Im sure I wouldnt be the first.  I did find myself staring at the Rocket Giotto on display at Tobys Estate in Brunswick yesterday.  Noice.  Shiny.

    Anyway, thanks, and as many have done before, Ill report back with my outcome.

    Cheers,
    Dennis.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rocky
    replied
    Re: Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

    Hi Dennis, my needs were pretty much the same as yours and I drink the same coffees. After 12 mths research I eventually bought the Diadema Perfetta. A better decision I have never made. I seriously considered the Silvia and VBM Levetta but bought the Perfetta because research indicated that it outshone the competition on pretty well any parameter.
    I found I was making excellent coffee right from the first few cups and 9months down the track I could not imagine being happier with any other machine, HX or better. I can see no reason why I would want to upgrade to a HX machine UNLESS for some reason I started making double the amount of coffee in each session. I have NOT found my coffee consumption has increased since purchase. This machine heats to operating temp in 15mins and is very stable temp wise. It steams like a locomotive and is a piece of eye candy in the kitchen. I do not have a single criticism of the machine at this point in time. IF I had expected to make more than six coffees in a session I would have bought a HX machine but for around 4-6 a session it is fine. I could wax lyrical for another 10 lines - so if you wish to discuss any particular aspects in detail, feel free to PM me.

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  • flynnaus
    replied
    Re: Low-end HX or High-end single boiler?

    Well I still think a single boiler would suit your purpose given your budget. I previously owned a VBM Piccolo like Hotshod and I support his comments including the time factor. My coffee enjoyment increased greatly after buying one.

    Diadema Perfetta is probably the pick of this class of machine from what I understand. But I wouldnt cross off the Silvia or Zaffiro.

    But there is not much gap in price between this machine and a lower end HX like the Expobar Office or Bezzeras. And the potential for higher output is there. My coffee consumption is the same as Hotshods but having an HX adds an extra dimension - and it has cured my upgraditis for quite some time.

    If you go the Barazi site (in the list of sponsors) they have a Pre-loved section with quite a few 2nd hand machines in your budget.

    Your grinder will be good enough as long as it can grind fine enough for espresso.

    Leave a comment:

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