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  • VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    I am just trying to come to terms with my new VBM Domobar Jr and finding shots consistently tasting burnt.

    A bit about my routine. I usually have it on timer and it comes on about an hour prior to making my first coffee. just before making my first coffee I run a cool flush of about 200ml, then I have a consistent dosing and tamping technique, and the pour usually comes out spot on like dripping honey between 20-30sec. The shots feel quite hot and taste burnt. Even subsequent shots can be the same.

    I will say that I am currently using it with my Sunbeam Grinder and will shortly upgrade to something better probably Mazzer Mini - although not decided yet.

    As I see it there are a few possibilities.

    1. Not using the cool flush technique appropriately for my machine. Maybe I should flush more or less or differently?
    2. Machine group head temp running too hot?
    3. Grinder not coping/or not suitable for quality Hx machine and affecting taste of coffee.

    Reading the sticky e61 brewing tips I notice that different people cool flush different amounts. I have experimented with my cool flush amounts - I wouldnt want to flush too much more as I imagine it would lower the temp of the group too much and have the opposite problem of sour coffee.

    Could it just be my grinder ? Any Tips ?

  • #2
    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    Originally posted by 4E4942424958582C0 link=1267828746/0#0 date=1267828746
    - I wouldnt want to flush too much more as I imagine it would lower the temp of the group too much and have the opposite problem of sour coffee.
    Why imagine it...? Try it and see.
    The addition of the grouphead thermometer would eliminate the guessing and allow you to quantify the situation as well as achieve more consistent results.

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    • #3
      Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

      Doubt it is ya grinder... It does get regular cleaning ???

      200ml is a solid flush and depending on ya system may not be ideal..

      Would be looking at ya machine setup.. OR ya beans?

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      • #4
        Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

        Hi bennett I cant actually offer a solution but I cant say that I have experienced a burnt taste with Jr. I have had sour & bitter but not burnt. In regards to a cooling flush, I do it spasmodically & when I do I would imagine that it is only in the vicinity of 50ml. Just doesnt seem to require one as when I do the water coming from the GH doesnt spit, f**t or carry on so I just shut it off, lock & pour. As AM suggested it may be that your machine setup needs to be checked.

        Steve.

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        • #5
          Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

          i want to know what the beans are? where they came from and how old.......

          i flush till i dont hear any "steamy water" coming out the GHead, thats water that makes a hiss hiss spit spit noise. For me its noise, nothing visual..... I dont have a VBM but my machine needs a fair flush if it;s been sitting there a while.

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          • #6
            Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

            Thanks for everyones replies.

            It doesnt seem to spit or splutter much at all - even at the beginning of the flush. So maybe it doesnt even need a flush?

            My beans are a blend from SO coffee Sydney, one week post roast.

            Im not sure if Im describing it properly. I can tell sour - I get that when I dont let the machine warm up enough. With this it seems burnt and too hot to even drink straight away, which I am not used to. All I can compare it with is my old Sunbeam, where a flat white with the same coffee would taste better and not be as hot on the mouth  - with the milk being textured to 60 degrees.

            It might be easier to assess with a short black - except I normally drink milk based, so I wont be able to compare to anything.

            So it sounds like I should get my machine setup checked - it may be running too hot. Or it might be me..

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            • #7
              Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

              Originally posted by 2B2C27272C3D3D490 link=1267828746/5#5 date=1267848690
              It doesnt seem to spit or splutter much at all - even at the beginning of the flush. So maybe it doesnt even need a flush?
              So why are you flushing?

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              • #8
                Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                Originally posted by 0539243F353423363E35510 link=1267828746/6#6 date=1267849332
                So why are you flushing?
                I dont know... I just thought I had to, especially if it was idle for a while.

                I didnt know about the sputter/spit rule until this post...

                You learn something everyday.

                So can I interpret from your post, that a cooling flush is only required if it spits or splutters steam when the brew lever is activated?

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                • #9
                  Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                  Originally posted by 2A2D26262D3C3C480 link=1267828746/7#7 date=1267850304
                  So can I interpret from your post, that a cooling flush is only required if it spits or splutters steam when the brew lever is activated?
                  If it does as stated above then one has to assume that either the water or the head it is hotter than 96C - 100C and thus Steam / splutter.

                  Opps... If were are looking to have about 90 - 94 for good coffee; and getting steam / spluttering, then it would suggest that temp is a bit high.

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                  • #10
                    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                    Hi Bennett,

                    If you normally drink flat whites, and the coffee is too hot for you to drink, I would think that it is the milk being overheated? I wouldnt think that a shot of espresso ~5 deg hotter than required would affect the temperature of a whole cup of milk?

                    Seeing that youve upgraded from the Sunbeam, Im sure the steaming power of the VBM puts it to shame. So it might be that you have to simply adjust for the much quicker steaming now? Could be that the thermometer is not keeping up with the actual rate of temp rise. So try stopping at 55 or even 50 deg.

                    If that doesnt work, then start looking at the espresso again.

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                    • #11
                      Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                      Originally posted by 5254435C5B350 link=1267828746/9#9 date=1267855190
                      Hi Bennett,

                      If you normally drink flat whites, and the coffee is too hot for you to drink, I would think that it is the milk being overheated?  I wouldnt think that a shot of espresso ~5 deg hotter than required would affect the temperature of a whole cup of milk?

                      Seeing that youve upgraded from the Sunbeam, Im sure the steaming power of the VBM puts it to shame.  So it might be that you have to simply adjust for the much quicker steaming now?  Could be that the thermometer is not keeping up with the actual rate of temp rise.  So try stopping at 55 or even 50 deg.

                      If that doesnt work, then start looking at the espresso again.
                      Great Point. I was going to put this up as another possibility. My milk is ready A LOT quicker than with the Sunbeam - in fact I still havent nailed it. Maybe when I pull it off at 60 degrees, the thermometer is still rising and Im actually tasting burnt milk.

                      Ill give it a go. Thanks Gavin - sounds like youve nailed it!

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                      • #12
                        Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                        Absolutely! i have to stop mine at 55C MAX, try steaming to 50 and watch the temp guage raise, it should get to 58 or so by itself, so stopping at 60 will give you 70 or so id say, which is pushing burnt.........good post gavin

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                        • #13
                          Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                          no worries, guys. glad i could help.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                            Hi Bennett, I tend to give junior a small cooling flush, never any splutter. Have a look at KKs excellent advice on "Creating great microfoam" (sorry no idea how to create link) in Milk Froth and Bubbles. Also check out Talk Coffee tips page. These have both been a massive help to me. Hopefully its a simple fix for you. Enjoy the ride

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                            • #15
                              Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                              Originally posted by 1410362F2F2A35222D430 link=1267828746/11#11 date=1267856015
                              Absolutely! i have to stop mine at 55C MAX, try steaming to 50 and watch the temp guage raise, it should get to 58 or so by itself, so stopping at 60 will give you 70 or so id say, which is pushing burnt.........good post gavin
                              Yep, same here....

                              And if its a hot and steamy day I pull it up at 50C on the thermometer. Really dont enjoy the taste of over-heated milk and it definitely can make your Latte/Cappa taste burnt...

                              Mal.

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