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VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

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  • #16
    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

    OK - just thought Id give everyone an update. Firstly I am sure what I was tasting yesterday was burnt milk. In fact I am almost embarassed that I didnt entertain that option first - thanks Gavin.

    I guess at the moment I am so overwhelmed with the VBM, and so many things/variables went through my head - my crappy grinder, and the complexities of a Hx machine, that I forgot to think about the milk - which I have been struggling with since day one!

    This is moving off topic and I may have to post elsewhere - BUT I CANT GET THE MILK RIGHT!!!!

    Yesterday I was burning the milk, today I pulled it off at 50 degrees and watched the thermometer climb to 58 degrees - but the whole stretching process in a 600ml jug takes about 5 seconds - its finished before its started. So today it was just too thin. I seem to vary between macrofoam - too many bubbles. or not enough - which looks nice and shiny but is just too thin. Even using KKs method, I get a nice whirlpool but it still ends up too thin. My problem I think is with wand depth placement, once I get that right it should be ok - but I struggle with the power of the VBM and the stupid angle of the steam holes - even when I dont open the steam lever fully its too quick. I was amazed to watch Otons youtube video because even on his machine the milk stretched slower than the VBM! Is the VBM turbocharged or something? I know its all about getting comfortable with the machine and it will eventually come to me, but it is difficult with the VBM due to its steam power.

    When I was buying the VBM I tried out the Isomac Tea and that was easy to stretch milk with - a lot like my Sunbeam. In comparison the VBM had a lot more steam power - I just thought with practice I would get used to it - but the penny hasnt dropped yet.

    I better go and practice some more  :-[

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

      my next q is what brand of milk are you using ?

      i know it seems wasteful but go and get 3L (maybe 6L) of dariy farmers and just make shot after shot.

      i find the cheap milk, cheap woollies or franklins to hard to work with

      even top up the jug a bit more to give you a bit more time

      MY machine is the same about 7-10 secs to steam, my microfoam is nothing flash most of the time but its OK - good

      also practice with cold water, just to get your technique.
      just the physical system
      eg wand into water, steam on, stretch, whirlpool, hit temp, steam off
      i know its not he same but its how i sort of show people how to start if they want to have a go

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

        There is a comprehensive manual written by a reseller which should be of interest:

        http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme%20guide7a_press.pdf

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

          Hello bennet.

          Cutting directly to the chase.

          Not wishing to upset but would you consider refering all these enquiries to the retailer that sold you the machine. It will probably mean a trip back to the retailer with machine (and grinder) and the coffee you are using.  It could mean taking some time off work. It will probably be a pleasure!

          Some clients think this is an imposition and an inconvenience. I tend to think it is the most direct & quickest way of solving your problem, is great coffee / machine / end user education, and will sort very quickly whether there really is an equipment problem or not.

          When you have worked out that there is (or isnt) an equipment problem, you can chase your equipment use techniques and coffee supply as separate issues.

          Pay for a lesson, it will be money extremely well spent.

          Good luck.

          Regardz,
          Attilio
          very first CS site sponsor.



          Comment


          • #20
            Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

            Originally posted by 636F666B6B620E0 link=1267828746/16#16 date=1267914733
            also practice with cold water, just to get your technique.
            just the physical system
            eg wand into water, steam on, stretch, whirlpool, hit temp, steam off
            i know its not he same but its how i sort of show people how to start if they want to have a go
            Its also a good way to see the wand depth.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

              I find that the whirlpool is elusive with the VBM wand. If youre trying to get it, youre probably fighting the machine and the machine will most likely win the battle- every time..

              My suggestion is that you rest the back of the wand against the rear of the jug so that the tip is off centre and just under the surface of the milk. You will get more of a tumbling motion than a whirlpool and this is ok too. Just hit it with the steam, hold where you are and do nothing.

              Some VBM owners have had the steam tip silver soldered and then redrilled the filled holes to 1.2-1.5mm but with a narrower exit angle on the stream. This solves the problem once and for all.

              Hope that helps!

              Chris

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                Originally posted by 6C584F59427569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1267828746/18#18 date=1267918060
                Not wishing to upset but would you consider refering all these enquiries to the retailer that sold you the machine. It will probably mean a trip back to the retailer with machine (and grinder) and the coffee you are using.It could mean taking some time off work. It will probably be a pleasure!

                Attilio, I think you are correct, in this case we are the re-sellers and we are always welcome back our customers for more training after they taken the machine home.

                Originally posted by 7E4B46417569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1267828746/20#20 date=1267919604
                My suggestion is that you rest the back of the wand against the rear of the jug so that the tip is off centre and just under the surface of the milk. You will get more of a tumbling motion than a whirlpool and this is ok too. Just hit it with the steam, hold where you are and do nothing.
                try the suggestion of Chris, it work for me very well, another thing do not open your steam full pressure.

                I have some training an installation on Tuesday afternoon, other wise David or myself we will be in the shop.

                Regards

                Renzo
                Di Bartoli Home Barista Centre

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                  Originally posted by 1A2E392F34031F333A3A39395C0 link=1267828746/18#18 date=1267918060
                  Not wishing to upset but would you consider refering all these enquiries to the retailer that sold you the machine. It will probably mean a trip back to the retailer with machine (and grinder) and the coffee you are using.  It could mean taking some time off work. It will probably be a pleasure!
                  I was considering this. Yes Renzo is always happy to help. Given all the issues with taking it in - time off work, lugging heavy machinery back to the shop, etc I thought I would start here first, and Im glad I did, because Im 99.9% sure now there is nothing wrong with my machine, especially the espresso side of things and its just about taming the VBM Milk wand. I will seriously consider getting a lesson. At the very least take up Renzos offer of going in and having a chat about milk texturing.

                  Originally posted by 0834293238392E3B33385C0 link=1267828746/19#19 date=1267918959
                  Its also a good way to see the wand depth.
                  I find this extremely helpful. I have been using water and a drop of detergent, and because I can see the wand depth in the water I nail it almost everytime - then I go back to milk (Dairy Farmers or Pura btw) and its hit and miss again.


                  Originally posted by 083D3037031F333A3A39395C0 link=1267828746/20#20 date=1267919604
                  My suggestion is that you rest the back of the wand against the rear of the jug so that the tip is off centre and just under the surface of the milk. You will get more of a tumbling motion than a whirlpool and this is ok too. Just hit it with the steam, hold where you are and do nothing.
                  This is how Renzo taught me how to do it. I just veered from it once I saw KKs method posted here. I might go back to that and give it a go. Thanks Chris. The soldering seems like a drastic step. I would prefer to tame the beast rather than change the machine if possible. At least this tells me I am not alone with the VBM milk wand. I was even warned about it by David when I bought the VBM - I just assumed I would appreciate the extra steam power down the track and I would eventually become accustomed to the steam wand - which Im sure I will, Ive only had the machine 1-2 weeks and in the interests of conserving milk I am learning on my daily 2 coffees instead of doing the whole 6 litre thing in one session. Maybe I should just sit down and budget 6 L or so of milk until I nail it...

                  Anyway thank you everyone for your opinions, like I said Im pretty sure I know whats wrong now - ME!


                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                    I found my VBM steamed small amounts of milk TOO QUICKLY!--I make small lattés and usually steam about 60-70 ml of milk at a time and 1 or 2 seconds too much and I had a burnt tasting coffee drink.

                    I took off the steam nozzle (the 2 hole version) and ran a bit of copper wire through the holes which reduced their effective diameter. This worked a treat and I had no problems after that.

                    It was easy, fast, and cheap.

                    Greg

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                      Originally posted by 6C6B60606B7A7A0E0 link=1267828746/22#22 date=1267926700
                      Thundergod wrote on Today at 10:42:
                      Its also a good way to see the wand depth.


                      I find this extremely helpful. I have been using water and a drop of detergent, and because I can see the wand depth in the water I nail it almost everytime - then I go back to milk (Dairy Farmers or Pura btw) and its hit and miss again.  
                      As you are able to "nail it" with the water you should be able (with more practise) to do it with milk.

                      Change you visual cue to the wand arm not the tip.
                      After all, this will be the bit you see using milk.
                      Learn to judge how far you are putting the tip under the surface by look, feel and sound.
                      Once youve done that enough times it should all come together.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                        I find it pretty easy to get the whirlpool effect - definately helps to use quality milk. play around with differnet milk volumes, jug angles and wand angles.. youll get it right sooner or later.
                        steaming 60ml of milk though..hahaha...itll go everywhere..!!

                        the temp of the milk out of the fridge makes some difference too - cold (3 deg) is more difficult than warm (6 deg)


                        im wondering - is 60 degrees milk temp ideal?? i think im making my milk way too hot...hmm.. i usually let it cool down a little after steaming (at the expense of some foam, i should add)

                        My domobar Jr was delivered with the pressurestat adjusted too high - was reading 13 bar during a shot, so I turned it down.. reading about 10bar seems really good.

                        theres another adjustment screw near the steam want but im not 1000% sure what it does - steam pressure?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                          Originally posted by 465D4255580C05340 link=1267828746/17#17 date=1267917555
                          There is a comprehensive manual written by a reseller which should be of interest:

                          http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme guide7a_press.pdf
                          wow, that is an excellent manual. why cant VBM include something like that with their product?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                            Originally posted by 3E26282121344D0 link=1267828746/26#26 date=1268284778
                            Originally posted by 465D4255580C05340 link=1267828746/17#17 date=1267917555
                            There is a comprehensive manual written by a reseller which should be of interest:

                            http://www.1st-line.com/machines/comm_mod/esprmach/vibiemme/Viebemme guide7a_press.pdf
                            wow, that is an excellent manual.  why cant VBM include something like that with their product?

                            Actually.... The manual was commissioned by the U.S. Importer who is also a reseller of the machines.


                            ...and Thank You! I am the one who created it- all text as ell as the photos and layout. And I am available for hire! : Really.

                            ..Just another coffee guy who is a photographer, writer, and graphic artist... We come by the dozen.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                              nice work!! ;D

                              im keen to try a tune up of my machine now..

                              my boiler pressure gauge shows 1.5bar (which decreases to 0.5 when i steam milk)

                              (my brew pressure is 10.5 bar during a pull, which i have adjusted down from 13.1)

                              I found the pressurestat adjustment screw, and wound it clockwise to decrease the boiler pressure...
                              my problem is that the screw is now wound down fully, but the pressure still reads 1.5bar.


                              what gives?
                              an advice?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: VBM Domobar Jr - ? burnt coffee

                                IMPORTANT:

                                someone please check this, and correct me if im wrong...

                                1. The Pressurestat screw is on the upper right of the machine, underneath the warming tray. (on my Junior, the pressurestat says "Mater" on it & DEC 08).

                                2. The pressurestat controls the boiler pressure/temp, which should be 1.5 bar, as indicated by the gauge on the upper left of the machine.

                                3. Turning the screw CLOCKWISE INCREASES the brew pressure/temp (because it makes the boiler click on at a lower pressure)

                                (i just had a look using a torch, and saw that the pressurestat has a + and - sign with an arrow, indicating clockwise is "+")

                                your manual says:

                                "Clockwise lowers the temperature - Counterclockwise raises the temperature"
                                I can only assume a Domobar Super in the USA has a different pstat, which is opposite...??

                                Comment

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