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Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

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  • #31
    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

    hehehe....you blokes are killing me.......

    If a Mazzer SJ has 64 mm plates, and the Gino Rossi also has 64 mm plates....and the plates are more than likley all sourced from a company that specialises in making plates to sell to all grinder manufacturers (ie plates not Mazzer manufactured or GR manufactured).....and the profile of the two plate designs differs in the main, only to cater for the different direction of rotation between the two grinders.....how can the grind quality of the mazzer be any better than that of the GR....Or, how can the grind quality of the GR be any worse than that of the Mazzer.......or if that of the mazzer is better...can it be quantified and if so how, and if so is it significant?

    And what about the under utilization these grinders are going to get at home....ie not using them to their full capacity....as in home use where they will never overheat and cook the grinds..... ie where their capacity (at home) is far in excess of their ability to perform.....how does this make a 64 mm GR grinder a lesser grinder than a 64 mm Mazzer in terms of grind quality...?

    There will of course be some differences in the rest of the design and build of the the two models in toto, but grind quality per se...in  home use?????????

    Sheesh!  The internet......a great source of information one day, and of misinformation the next!

    I have both GRs and Mazzer SJs in my fleet. They both fare about the same in cafe use dependent on how well they are treated over time by some very unsympathetic operators.....

    Why would anyone not buy a good used GR at auction for home use, and if pushed depending on the individual bidders on the day, pay somewhere near to the price of far far lesser new domestic grinders that wont grind coffee as well and last 20 years less......?

    If one of you blokes doesnt go to the auction and buy that GR.....maybe I will, because it will get snapped up at far less than the cost of new replacement by the importer....even if it goes to $500.00...and it wont go for anywhere near that.

    Regardz,
    A.

    Note I am not a Gino Rossi importer so no bias there.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

      Originally posted by 41656C6C6F6F5541657967650A0 link=1274333836/29#29 date=1274444744
      Many have altered the hopper
      Be it purchased or hand made
      That will reduce the visual bulk by a country mile and improve the WAF factor  
      Neat.

      I see they come in various forms - conical burrs, flat burrs, and plates? is it much of a muchness wrt quality?  (relative to my Breville its probably all better, but this grinder scored points for never needing an upgrade - would flat burrs be less "future-proof"?)

      How can I identify this one?  I have been researching but its a bit hard to figure out when I dont know the exact terms

      thanks guys for continuing to answer all my questions

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

        Originally posted by 6C584F59427569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1274333836/30#30 date=1274445869
        hehehe....you blokes are killing me.......
        ...
        If you blokes doesnt go to the aucstion and buy that GR.....I will!
        Point taken  I have a tendency to ask lots of questions.

        I should stop making noise now - theres probably not much more Ill learn until the hammer has fallen, so the next post from me will be after that

        thanks again & good night all - this place is invaluable!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

          Originally posted by 6C584F59427569454C4C4F4F2A0 link=1274333836/30#30 date=1274445869
          hehehe....you blokes are killing me.......

          Regardz,
          A.
          .
          lol, 95 % of the reason I reckon the mazzer is better is ITs NEWER !!! Bling bling !!! i prefer its looks as well

          but also the burrs were / are near new on my MAz where the GR i had were no where near new. It is also quieter than the GR i had, and the less noise makes me think it was faster but may not really have been....

          that GR was older so i am not comparing them on like for like.....

          there is just a fair price diff in 2nd hand GR to MAZ

          Love your work Attilio, you bring a clear head to this forum often

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

            Gday L,

            yep, there is no doubt that a new looking grinder makes a tired looking grinder look really really bad....

            In any case it will be interesting to note that an SJ with worn plates screams as loud and as high pitched as a GR with worn plates....which is a terrible thing to hear.

            Trouble is, in cafe situations where there is lots of other noise, and where the operators live with the same grinder day in and day out so are used to level & pitch of noise, they dont notice it growing in volume over time to a point where it it ear piercing.

            This is usually an indication that the plates are shot and need to be replaced. You replace them and all of a sudden everyone notices how much quieter it is.

            But over time the volume and pitch increases again slowly.

            This will never happen in home use because the through put of coffee simply is not the same. For example, a cafe using say 10 kilos a week has done 400 kilos in 40 weeks or less than a year. A high use household using 1 kilo a week  will take 400 weeks or roughly 7.5 years to get to the same point where someone needs to wonder about changing the plates.

            If a grinder screams....its an indication of wear on the plates and as has been noted, it is then not a fair comparison to compare an SJ with good plates to a GR with older plates.

            Otherwise it should be almost impossible to tell the difference in quality of grinds as translated into the cup.

            I will repeat, an SJ with worn plates is just as loud as a GR with worn plates. And both brands fare just as badly under the care of unsympathetic operators, and just as well under the care of sympathetic operators.

            So it is unfair to at Carte Blanche (as happens in internet forums) , label Mazzer grinders as somehow posessing iconic attributes and to be something to strive for,  and to label many other good name grinders as somehow being of lesser quality.  

            When they are operated by sympathetic people, and when the correct models are specified for any give situation, then in fact most cafe spec grinders of indeterminate brand, will do a marvellous job because after that, it always comes down to the operator.

            And of course, most grinder problems are caused by some one underspecifying the model for the situation. And then someone not knowing how to manage the grinder in the work situation. This is not the brands fault.

            Which means in home use.......?


            Regardz,
            Attilio.


            This is not an anti Mazzer thing, it is a "realistically fellas, whats so  wrong with the others" thing.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

              OH. MY. GOSH.

              The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.  

              Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.  I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.  Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage

              The doser also looked a bit faulty, and there was some resin on the base holding together a crack...  At least Im telling myself these are good reasons to let it go!

              Well thanks a million for the advice - Ill definitely be saving at tax time to get a good second hand machine & grinder, and Ill stop by here first

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                Cheap A couple of the 2 group Z9s I picked up a year or so ago to play with were around that price too from evilbay plus some freight.

                You had better send Attilio an email too when you are up to buying, after the novels he has posted I know he did have some second hand ones for sale a while back.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                  Originally posted by 4941494E4442200 link=1274333836/35#35 date=1274492086
                  The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.

                  Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage
                  Maybe he also read this thread ;D
                  Anyway, he picked up a bargain.
                  The machine was a steal, even if just for spare parts.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                    Originally posted by 5A5D48474A290 link=1274333836/37#37 date=1274503036
                    Originally posted by 4941494E4442200 link=1274333836/35#35 date=1274492086
                    The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.

                    Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage  
                    Maybe he also read this thread ;D
                    Anyway, he picked up a bargain.
                    The machine was a steal, even if just for spare parts.
                    Showing a Community spirit.. Pay it forward... Why purchase or push another for no good reason.. Now it it was your stuff being auctioned... Another matter ;D

                    That machine at $100 was my target .. Procon pump 2 or more group handles / baskets and 3 or 4 big SS jugs etc.. Let alone all teh copper pipes and valvs / solenoids etc etc etc.. BUT worth NOTHINg if you can not use


                    Just what I was looking for. Cut teh boiler in half and have the scaled / dirty section mounted on teh wall; just like a trophy ;D

                    A... Might have paid teh $200 and the shipping ???... But maybe you have met another CS in teh making.. A local contact if in need...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                      Originally posted by 5A5D48474A290 link=1274333836/37#37 date=1274503036
                      Maybe he also read this thread ;D
                      I thought of that, but I dont think so - I was considering removing any location details...

                      Originally posted by 5C737A786F507C737C7A78707873691D0 link=1274333836/38#38 date=1274504600
                      Showing a Community spirit..  Pay it forward... Why purchase or push another for no good reason..  Now it it was your stuff being auctioned... Another matter  ;D
                      Yes, both would have been great at $100, but like you said - if I kept bidding, he would have kept bidding, and both would have been more.  It only takes one other buyer to push the price right up.  (I wish he wasnt there, but oh well, thats life!)

                      I didnt see the point on bidding on the machine - if I cant use it he may as well have it for as low as it goes.  A few earlier bids were lumped together, so he actually got the machine, a small TV, dictionary on CD, and aDSL modem all for $100!  woot!

                      That machine at $100 was my target ..  Procon pump 2 or more group handles / baskets and 3 or 4 big SS jugs etc.. Let alone all the copper pipes and valvs / solenoids etc etc etc..  BUT worth NOTHINg if you can not use  
                      You wanted it?  I was hinting at bidding for someone else on CS and sending it to them.  A bit short notice though  And I have less than 50 posts so you dont know who I am yet

                      A... Might have paid the $200 and the shipping ???... But maybe you have met another CS in the making.. A local contact if in need...
                      He didnt look the talkative type, but who knows?  My experience in Darwin is that people are grouped into two categories:
                      • The first group dont understand what a good coffee is and dont believe you when you say a better grinder or fresher beans will make a better coffee.  They think anyone can make an espresso on any machine, given a few seconds to learn.
                      • Those that do know about quality machines and making coffee dont seem too interested in talking about it - perhaps they think Im in the first group and dont want to explain everything to me. I havent yet met one person, in person, who appreciates fresh beans, quality grinding, and proper brewing :-?

                      Anyhoo, after that let down, Im going to make a "wanted to buy" post.  I think Ill start with the grinder, as thats probably cheapest, and then get the machine in a few months.

                      Thanks for the help. Iain.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                        Originally posted by 717971767C7A180 link=1274333836/35#35 date=1274492086
                        The grinder went for $105, and the machine went for $100.

                        Yes I was bidding on the grinder, but the other guy _really_ wanted it.I chatted to him later & he would have gone to $200 or more.Still cheap, but I cant really justify the size and cost at this stage
                        Still cheap at $205

                        Size and WAP will come into the equation with a GR.
                        I have a conical one at home but its too big even for my kitchen.
                        Without the hopper its as tall as my Macap.

                        Now you have an idea of auction prices and how lucky or not you can be depending on who else is bidding.

                        I got my GR for $300 because no one else was bidding for it on the day.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                          [QUOTE=5A6F6265514D6168686B6B0E0 link=1274333836/12#12 date=1274387884]
                          Originally posted by 2A21232C21322B213533400 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
                          Originally posted by 5952505F524158524640330 link=1274333836/11#11 date=1274386314
                          A mate bought a Giotto at the same time on the grounds that it looked better and still hasnt got a decent cup out of it.
                          Clearly, your mate needs to adjust the nut on the group handle :
                          Ah yes, the sense of humor of a suplier ...

                          Actually the THING WAS adjusted by the importer a couple of times early in the piece, and never good, and fully services again recently, along with a new element, big service, descale, several hundred dollars ...... by the importer - and the stream power is still cr@p.

                          Pump just dropped its guts and its back there. They said they can put upgraded parts to make it better ...

                          Their solution of un-reliable sigle shot extractions? "Oh, we just use the double filter ..."

                          The Bo-ema I bought is still great ... but then you probably dont sell them ...

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                            There are bad examples of anything on the planet, sometimes you just get a lemon. The key is, a good supplier will always be there to look after you.

                            Not knocking the Bo-ema as such but if you lined up a thousand units of each the Bo-ema and the Giotto for home use, it is my personal opinion the the Giotto might come away with the win.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                              Originally posted by 73706363747D110 link=1274333836/42#42 date=1274519122
                              There are bad examples of anything on the planet, sometimes you just get a lemon.  The key is, a good supplier will always be there to look after you.  

                              Not knocking the Bo-ema as such but if you lined up a thousand units of each the Bo-ema and the Giotto for home use, it is my personal opinion the the Giotto might come away with the win.
                              Actually the service tech said it was pretty normal for an original. He did say the Premium Plus was much better.

                              My point being, the Bo-Ema and other commercial units are in a different class, despite the smaller units getting better all the time, their major advantage remains size.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Advice for Inspecting Boema at Auction tomorrow

                                Originally posted by 4942404F425148425650230 link=1274333836/43#43 date=1274522275
                                Actually the service tech said it was pretty normal for an original. He did say the Premium Plus was much better.
                                Yes- If it was a Giotto Classic (round gauge), the steam was pretty underwhelming and there is not much which can be done- short of a valve transplant which would be really tricky. Its asthmatic in comparison to later Giottos.

                                A well set up Giotto Premium or Premium plus is every bit the measure of a boema on shot quality. Both have far better steam than the Giotto Classic. The GP/GPP wand remains the best wand I have ever used and perfect microfoam is simple.

                                That said, if there is space for a commercial and you can look at it every day, go for it...

                                Comment

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