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thermosiphon insulation and extraction

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  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: thermosiphon insulation and extraction

    I wouldnt insulate the Thermosyphon pipework either, mostly for the reasons given above by the previous respondents....

    When the thermodynamics (which includes thermal losses) is taken into account at the engineering and design stage, the primary aim of this exercise (when performed properly) is to ensure that the Group (in toto) static and dynamic thermal behaviour remains within a narrow prescribed range.

    If you then disturb this "equilibrium" by changing the static or thermodynamic behaviour of any part of this hydraulic circuit, you will naturally alter where the equilibrium will now lie. The smart money says that this will realise some magnitude of temperature increase at the Group. This will be different for different makes and designs but if the thermal losses accounted for in exposed Thermosyphon pipework has been significantly reduced, then this gain in thermal efficiency will be transferred to the Group. How much is anyones guess but I would be surprised if it cant be measured.

    Its an easy test for you to conduct though, if you feel like a bit of experimentation. The result in the cup is probably way more important than any academic measurable difference though....

    Mal.

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  • A_M
    replied
    Re: thermosiphon insulation and extraction

    Originally posted by 5A575E3B0 link=1300258043/0#0 date=1300258043
    I insulated the boiler and the inlet pipe of the thermosiphon circuit on my expobar leva single boiler.
    Without knowing the temp profile before hand and what other changes may have been made, the above statement leads to an assumption that their may be some increase ???

    The insulated Boiler should just reduce the dead band / time, but again the performance of the thermostat must also be considered.

    The internal ambient means that the heat loss in the thermosiphon (small tube / surface area / Flowrate) should not be that significant.  However by adding Insulation and losses that were managed will now be in error and you may get enough of a change at the group to affect the bean..

    My gut feel is, that it is the bean etc that wants and is different and your trying to point at the Machine..  Sorry but approx 1C may have an impact on the bean but are your taste buds that good ???


    I would leave the insulation on the boiler and remove the stuff on the thermosiphon and then look at you Grind / Tamp and Dose AND the Beans as to any changes in the cup that may or may not be ideal...

    A tweak Here and There and no tracking of changes etc is not a good approach.

    Then again, it is all common sense...   

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  • TC
    replied
    Re: thermosiphon insulation and extraction

    Hello Ale,

    Your observations could be the result of a multitude of variables.

    As for the mods, Im puzzled as to why youd even think about doing that without access to a Scace device and logging software?  :-?

    No doubt that you have altered the thermal properties of your machine, and its almost certainly running a whole heap hotter. Manufacturers and importers often do lots of work on their machines to get them right. To me it looks as if you have undone their work.

    FWIW, I have never seen insulation on an inlet pipe.

    Best bet is if you dont like the results, go back to standard.

    Leave a comment:


  • ale
    started a topic thermosiphon insulation and extraction

    thermosiphon insulation and extraction

    Hi all

    I insulated the boiler and the inlet pipe of the thermosiphon circuit on my expobar leva single boiler.

    The result was good when I brewed 70% arabica + 30% robusta coffee , but now that I am using 100% arabica I cannot get so much crema and the taste is kind of bitter.

    Inlet pipe insulation will result in higher group temp (however more stable and less influenced by actual ambient temp).

    My idea is that this temp. increase may have been acceptable with the previous beans but not whith 100% arabica.

    Whats your opinion, can you confirm this may be due to inlet pipe insulation (then Ill remove it) or maybe its just a characteristic of 100% arabica not making so much crema ?

    thanks!
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