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Originally posted by 67777B60777C6D252D2125140 link=1303783668/22#22 date=1305188020
Hi,
I am looking at an upgrade from my Sylvia but also have limited bench space. I like the Giotto but it is too wide for my bench by the time a put a new grinder there as well. Is there any machine in that quality and price level that that takes up less bench space?
Maybe next time you are in Sydney drop at the shop and see the machine in operation and check the foot print.
Hi Scotchy. I would very highly recommend the VBM Domobar Junior.
I too had limited space, in particular width, and chose the VBM for that, and many other reasons.
Its been around 13 months now and I could not be happier. The build quality is excellent and produces an outstanding shot (assuming other variables such as quality beans and grind).
Interestingly I got a hold of a near new Giotto last week. I was considering replacing the VMB with the Giotto but after 2 days went back to the VBM. The Giotto was a little too wide making the ergonomics in my tight space akward. More importantly I couldnt see any performance benefits (for my purposes) of the Giotto.
A less expensive machine is the Diadema Junior Plus (Semi Auto). I was trying to decide between this and the VBM. According to Chris from Talk Coffee, whom I bought from, there wasnt a lot between them. I liked the look of the VBM and it also has a little more steaming grunt.
Originally posted by 45555942555E4F070F0307360 link=1303783668/22#22 date=1305188020
Hi,
I am looking at an upgrade from my Sylvia but also have limited bench space. I like the Giotto but it is too wide for my bench by the time a put a new grinder there as well. Is there any machine in that quality and price level that that takes up less bench space?
Welcome scotchy,
Have a look over the Vibiemme Domobar Junior. It has one of the smallest footprints around.
Hi,
I am looking at an upgrade from my Sylvia but also have limited bench space. I like the Giotto but it is too wide for my bench by the time a put a new grinder there as well. Is there any machine in that quality and price level that that takes up less bench space?
Originally posted by 383933203E3B21520 link=1303783668/19#19 date=1305149459
And for the record, I think the little guy performs as well as the Giotto in most areas.
You start to get into diminishing returns territory quite quickly when comparing machines, it really depends on how deeply you want to get involved with it all.
I have had my setup for over a year now and have not spent anything on it. I got in touch with Talk Coffee to see if I should bring my kit in for a service and he said there wasnt anything that would need doing 8-) I keep it clean and use water run through a good filter to keep the scale down.
The group seal will require replacing sometime in the future but that is very cheap to do yourself.
I have a K3 WBC and GPP from Talk Coffee and cant see any need to upgrade, that doesnt mean I wont one day though ;D
Originally posted by 5E415C54525D0B02330 link=1303783668/18#18 date=1305121969
And yeah the small size of the VBM is definitely a big plus, its going to be a tight fit with any machine+grinder so an extra 40mm or so is a big help.
Im like you with pretty limited space. Just last week I got my hands on a near new Rocket Giotto which was going to replace the VBM. After a couple of days of using the Giotto I realised that little bit of extra sized made it akward to use in a tight space. And for the record, I think the little guy performs as well as the Giotto in most areas.
And yeah the small size of the VBM is definitely a big plus, its going to be a tight fit with any machine+grinder so an extra 40mm or so is a big help.
Hey Nat Pop, theres another one liking the VBM+K3T combo, seems to be a very popular choice on this site. Im not surprised though the both look and feel great, Im thinking that is my top choice at the moment, but Id have to stretch the budget somewhat to get there.
Skelly, Ive kind of moved away from the autos now, though I think it would be a while before Im telling the difference between shots due to bean freshness and all that. I hadnt thought about tamp pressure though, you would need to be very consistent if you were using an auto. Im not needing to justify spending the money either, were mostly using funds from a wedding registry (had to put something on there!)
I have the VBM junior with a
k3 touch. For me, it is a perfect combination. The quality and consistency is great and the footprint of the units work well in a smallish kitchen. I had tried my old grinder before the k3 and the difference was huge. I then tried the k3 on my old machine, a via venenzi seaco and it was a huge improvement.
About automatic machines:
Over the course of a week, youll find yourself altering your shot time and volume to compensate for small changes in bean age/staleness, tamp pressure, etc. I find it best to stop the shot when its starting to blonde; not after a certain exact time, or when a certain exact volume has been dispensed.
An automatic volumetric machine doesnt compensate well for these small variances.
Using an automatic machine doesnt really save you any time either. With practice, you can use the 25 seconds of pour time to steam your milk (keeping one eye on the pour to check for blonding).
Heres how I justify cost:
If you & your wife buy a cafe coffee most days of the week, that will quickly add up to about $50/week.
Your beans and milk will only cost about $15/week, so youre saving about $2000/year by making your own coffee at home!
The VBM Junior is an awesome machine, but there are many very similar "HX" machines, so you can choose one to suit your taste (look & feel).
For grinders, people have said the K3T is great, and (for a bit less money) the Eureka Mignon is also excellent.
Youd need to make a bit of a decision about auto, or semi auto.
Yes, with the auto, in theory there is more to go wrong in the long term, but like most eletctronic devices they are VERY reliable . The convenience is good though, hit the button and do something else and the cup doesnt overflow. Semi auto are cheaper, so you get more in other areas per $$$. I have an sunbeam 6910, and love the short heat up and auto function. I also have an expobar pulser.
There are alot of good machines in your price break if you read the specs (boiler size, element size, etc and try one. Parts are also readily available for that market of machine if you need gaskets, seals, etc (see coffeeparts site who are a sponsor) or the manufacturer if the part is specialised.
At $2700, you would be able to get a dual boiler expobar (E61) and a smart grinder (just).
BUT I would have a look at the new breville when it comes out .............its on my inpulse buy list if its as good as the thread claims it will be. Grinder wise, Id love a K3, but I just got the shim kit for my Sunbeam grinder, so now it grinds fine enough and the urgency to upgrade has gone. Expobar are a bit cheaper, I think (could be wrong) becasue they are made in Spain with a lower labour rate than other EU countries, but they are good on detail eg my pulser has an insulated boiler, and the expobar dual boiler has a little roller wheel between the lever and the microswitch (now thats detail).
If the gaggia is still working, have some fun shopping and check out all the machines :-), and as in Harry Potter "the wand chooses the wizard". Im waiting for the evoluzione or Duetto to choose me :-)
Thanks RichardM... good point to check CoffeeParts!
I guess I was more wondering whether a particular make or model has more or less issues over others - Im guessing at the price point of this topic theyre all pretty good, but I imagine site sponsors would get to see and hear about the repair side more often?
i.e. Theres a thread where an Expobar Leva has a leak at bottom of boiler (possibly dud gasket?); and an Oscar for sale that had a few big services and replaced a pressurestat...
Originally posted by 3F3326263A61253A520 link=1303783668/11#11 date=1304744727
What sort of money do you need to allow for?
As a bare minimum for maintenance, you need cleaning solutions (descaler and backflush detergent), group head seals go fairly regularly depending on machine too. Of course, as with any machine, buttons, taps, valves, etc can all break, but not really something you can plan for. Get an idea of parts prices from Coffeeparts.
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