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Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

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  • matth3wh
    replied
    Bazzera BZ99S vs Breville vs Rancilio S27

    Hi Attilio
    Thanks heaps for your response. I found it very helpful.

    Upon re-reading my post I am sorry if it came across that I was expecting a fully reconditioned unit for the price. You are right that any work done on the machine would quickly add up in labour costs alone.

    I was more trying to get an idea whether the price they were asking for it was in the ball park / reasonable.

    I assume in this case Bezzera have factored that in and the 3 month warranty they offer is also worth a bit too... i.e. vs buying at auction when there is mostly no recourse for any problems
    Originally posted by 7F4B5C4A51667A565F5F5C5C390 link=1304487114/6#6 date=1305240848
    The machines past history is irrelevant.
    I think it would be relevant for factoring in what sort of repair costs you may be up for and adjusting your buy price ... (??)  I was thinking more so of a situation if you are looking at buying a machine off auction Bay... if you can potentially verify with a 3rd party who serviced the machine... also if the owners know how to maintain the machine. (??)

    Originally posted by 7F4B5C4A51667A565F5F5C5C390 link=1304487114/6#6 date=1305240848
    The warranty is your protection against anything that may go wrong.

    The only questions you need to think on, are:
    a) is the vendor a professional business that you can trust and you are happy to deal with on this one and,
    b) are you prepared to spend $1100.00 on this used machine with what sounds like a very reasonable warranty for something of that age OR, do you prefer to buy a new machine with new machine warranty for the extra outlay.
    a) professional business - tick b) reasonable warranty - tick

    I guess another question to factor in would be is the second hand machine much more likely to have any future costs over a new one or is the build / parts quality such that this would be comparable.

    Im probably thinking of it all too much with a used car mentality. "Has the timing chain been done, as that is the major upcoming expense on model X at Y number of kilometers."

    Leave a comment:


  • Fresh_Coffee
    replied
    Re: Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    Originally posted by 585441415D06425D350 link=1304487114/3#3 date=1305194067
    Anyone think a 12 yr old BZ99S Machine that has been fully serviced by qualified tech and 3 month warranty from Bezzerra Australia is worth about $1100?

    Waiting to hear more about service history and if it is restored to as new condition.

    Sorry but what anyone "thinks" is not relevant as it is nothing more than anyones unqualified opinion from the safety of their usually unqualified keyboard.

    Lets say you were able to bag a used Bz99 privately, for say....anywhere between $500.00 to $900.00 depending on condition and age.

    Working it may be, but just serviced by a qualified professional repairer it would not be and neither would it have any form of warranty.

    And lets say the repair shop spent a couple of hours servicing it and possibly fitted some new parts some of them expensive (you buy an auto fill box). Lets say.....at $100.00 an hour that would be $200.00, and lets say the machine needed a new auto fill controller, plus a few seals etc at say....$200.00....There is a $400.00 cost to the repair shop, let alone what it may "budget" to lose on the deal if something is required to be done under the limited warranty.

    There is also the cost of the machine to the business in the first place, which equals the value that they traded it for...that came off the selling price of the new machine to the previous owner.

    Often enough the sale of a traded machine only recoups close to the cost to the business of the value it was traded for, and the business is therefore having to work to make 2 sales, to make the turnover it would have made on just the sale of the new machine had there been no trade in......with less profit.

    Is the repairer expected to work for nothing in order to provide a serviced machine with warranty to its client?

    A restoration to new condition is called "reconditioned" or "fully reconditioned",  not "serviced", and I can assure you if the machine was reconditioned the cost of the labour and parts (to the repairer) would outstrip any reasonable resale value of a 12 year old machine.

    The machines past history is irrelevant. It is a used machine presumably in good working order for a particular price that a client is either prepared, or not prepared to pay, there is not much more to it I am afraid.

    The warranty is your protection against anything that may go wrong.

    And there is also the "convenience factor" that this is a (presumably) good condition used machine that has been serviced and is guaranteed and is available right now so you dont have to sit on evil-bay for 12 months waiting for some bargain to come, or not  come up for a song so you can then buy it and spend 6 months chasing your tail trying to get it up and running properly at further expense, frustration, and while suffering through a lack of coffee during the period ..... 

    Cutting to the chase, the only questions you need to think on, are:
    a) is the vendor a professional business that you can trust and you are happy to deal with on this one and,
    b) are you prepared to spend $1100.00 on this used machine with what sounds like a very reasonable warranty for something of that age OR, do you prefer to buy a new machine with new machine warranty for the extra outlay.

    Hope this helps.

    Rgdz,
    Attilio
    very first CS site sponsor.

    Leave a comment:


  • matth3wh
    replied
    Re: Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    Good pickup Caffeine Junky! I didnt realise they were at such a good price brand new!. Bezerra couldnt tell me much about the history of the machine as it was traded in for a new one. However, their own service tech has done a "full service" on it... 

    I will ask for more specifics on what that means exactly. If they removed all the barnacles (or replaced the boiler/elements) and replaced worn gaskets and seals then I guess that in some ways it doesnt matter too much that it is 12 years old... 

    As you say they seem to be rock solid like the Rancilio S2x series machines.

    DiBartoli mention in the description that they guarantee resale value of at least 50% on these machines after 5 years (if looked after with the standard TLC machines like).

    Bezzera BZ99S
    Dimensions: 310mm x 380mm x 345mm
    Power: 1300W    Machine Type: Heat Exchanger
    Boiler Size: 1.5L    Tank: 4L
    Pump: Vibe   Country of Manufacture: Italy
    Product Weight: 19.50 kg

    I think I have to change the topic now to
    Bezzera BZ99 or Breville or Rancilio S27 or Red Rancilio Epoca single group...

    Leave a comment:


  • jkarlis
    replied
    Re: Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    Difficult to comment without seeing the machine and knowing more details. Bezerra machines are as rock solid and buying from a reputable supplied such as BA is a much much safer bet than buying from an uknown source with zero warranty.

    On the other hand, you can buy the same machine new from DiBartoli for $1879. In fact Im not sure why this machine is not a lot more popular, it rarely rates a mention on here.

    Leave a comment:


  • matth3wh
    replied
    Re: Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    Anyone think a 12 yr old BZ99S Machine that has been fully serviced by qualified tech and 3 month warranty from Bezzerra Australia is worth about $1100?

    Waiting to hear more about service history and if it is restored to as new condition.

    Leave a comment:


  • matth3wh
    replied
    Re: Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    RE: Grinder...

    Im hoping I might get the Rossi RR45 here on CS and also get a Breville Smart Grinder...  then again, the Smart Grinder might be unnecessary if I have the Rossi...
    I already have someone lined up to buy my EM0480, so that will wrap that up neatly.

    RE: machines...
    The Giotto has been bought already before I could get any further details out of "them" ... I should have just thrown my credit card details at them   

    Surely by some miracle there could be an ex-demo / refurb minore III out there with my name on it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    Originally posted by 0E0217170B50140B630 link=1304487113/0#0 date=1304487113
    Im now thinking of following thundergods example


    You will save a few $$$ by not upgrading in several steps to that level.

    What about a grinder?

    Leave a comment:


  • Expobar Office Semi or Giotto Prem or BEZZERA BZ99

    Hi all... after reading a lot of different topics on here and thinking about a Lelit Im now thinking of following thundergods example (?) and going straight to a single group HX machine sans plumbing.

    To that end Im looking at a few options in the lower priced machines like a new Expobar Office Semi-auto or an older Giotto Premium or an older yet Bezzera BZ99 or I guess a Nuova Simonelli Oscar is a good option too

    Im hoping to visit a sponsor like JetBlack Espresso soon and try some machines first hand.

    Anyone experienced with a number of these and can give some main pros/cons or is it a case of "all good"?
    Should I wait and see what the new Breville can do?
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