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Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

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  • Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

    Hey gang. Ive been pulling a few single shots recently, mostly evenings when I dont want to be kept awake all night. The strange thing Ive found is that my single shots are pouring vastly better than my doubles, a nice rich creamy ooze that looks good and tastes good. In comparison my morning double shots are looking (relatively) watery and the flow is curling in from the twin spouts, even from the start of the shot, and not tasting as good. Its not flowing too fast though.

    Im pretty good and consistent with my dosing and tamping technique (I think anyway) - fill, level, knock down, fill, level, tamp. (singles just fill, level, tamp or it wont lock in).

    The double pucks sometimes have some holes near the edge, so maybe its channelling?

    Not sure if its a technique or equipment thing, so any feedback is welcomed. My tamper allows decent compression but its a little undersize, and maybe thats affecting the doubles more as the holes go out closer to the edge...

  • #2
    Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

    Gday Matt...

    Do you use the same grind setting for both filter basket sizes?

    Mal.

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    • #3
      Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

      No, I typically dial in on the double based on flow rate, but the single seems more forgiving on dose and grind. Even when the flow rate is right on the double, it seems if the beans arent aged perfectly then they dont pour as well as the single.

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      • #4
        Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

        Are your single baskets stepped, or do they just look like a flatter version of a double basket?

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        • #5
          Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

          Single is tapered with a smaller outlet. Hence my suspicion that with an undersize tamper the flow is sneaking round the outer edge of the double.





          On the other hand maybe Im just grinding too fine on the doubles and its channelling...?

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          • #6
            Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

            Any chance of a short video of the pours from both baskets....

            Mal.

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            • #7
              Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

              Captured a vid of the double this morning, but its with <24h post-roast beans, so probably not representative. There was a bit of mousetailing going on though.

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              • #8
                Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                Originally posted by 012D3838130725222B4C0 link=1307105228/0#0 date=1307105228
                Im pretty good and consistent with my dosing and tamping technique (I think anyway) - fill, level, knock down, fill, level, tamp. (singles just fill, level, tamp or it wont lock in).
                Im definately no expert but maybe in you single shots the coffee is jammed up against the showerscreen and that is somehow helping. I read somewhere someone saying that after bench testing a dozen sylvias in a session he came to the conclusion that if you dose so that the coffee is jammed in like this your tamping becomes irrelevent and the coffee comes out well regardless. i guess if you go even slightly over this magic dose then its bad for your machine as well as your cup of coffee.

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                • #9
                  Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                  Matt, I dose exactly the same way with doubles and singles but with singles when I level I use a curved edge (scott callaghans dosing tools)  to take out an exact amount and with doubles I use a straight edge. The only change I make for a double is to go an exact amount finer on my grinder. Experiment to see what works for you.

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                  • #10
                    Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                    yep. curved edge does the trick. guy from LM has explained to me. I think LM delievers such curved baskets.
                    hard to translate from italian,but it works!!! :

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                    • #11
                      Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                      Originally posted by 6B62516D6F7C60676D6B7C610E0 link=1307105228/9#9 date=1307515357
                      yep. curved edge does the trick. guy from LM has explained to me. I think LM delievers such curved baskets.
                      hard to translate from italian,but it works!!! :
                      And I think LM probably have the very worst baskets Ive ever used or seen come with a machine. :P

                      Originally posted by 6C6F7C7C670E0 link=1307105228/8#8 date=1307358613
                      when I level I use a curved edge (scott callaghans dosing tools) to take out an exact amount and with doubles I use a straight edge.
                      Phil are you reading this?

                      Trouble with those dosing tools is that they dont leave in an exact amount. If you have ground, dosed and settled at all differently, then you will be left with a different amount in the basket every time.

                      I met a guy called Phil who came up with the solution, but I cant say more because I think he is still obtaining patents.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                        Originally posted by 26070C0C0B11620 link=1307105228/10#10 date=1307518507
                        Originally posted by 6B62516D6F7C60676D6B7C610E0 link=1307105228/9#9 date=1307515357
                        yep. curved edge does the trick. guy from LM has explained to me. I think LM delievers such curved baskets.
                        hard to translate from italian,but it works!!! :
                        And I think LM probably have the very worst baskets Ive ever used or seen come with a machine.  :P

                        Originally posted by 6C6F7C7C670E0 link=1307105228/8#8 date=1307358613
                        when I level I use a curved edge (scott callaghans dosing tools)  to take out an exact amount and with doubles I use a straight edge.
                        Phil are you reading this? 

                        Trouble with those dosing tools is that they dont leave in an exact amount.  If you have ground, dosed and settled at all differently, then you will be left with a different amount in the basket every time.

                        I met a guy called Phil who came up with the solution, but I cant say more because I think he is still obtaining patents.
                        But what if you do dose and tamp reasonably consistently? Then your singles are reproducible. These dosing tools have helped me achieve this consistency.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                          Originally posted by 5A7B7070776D1E0 link=1307105228/10#10 date=1307518507
                          If you have ground, dosed and settled at all differently,
                          Originally posted by 7C7F6C6C771E0 link=1307105228/11#11 date=1307699929
                          what if you do dose and tamp reasonably consistently?
                          Only 2 out 3, and the grind size will have a large impact on dose.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                            Well after some pondering and analysis my best guess is chanelling on the doubles.  They quite often get pinprick holes near the edge.

                            Might need a naked PF to see whats going on.  Video is uploading as we speak...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Doubles vs singles - not what people say...

                              Video of a double from last week. Fresh beans (<24h post roast, so this probably looks better than many of them), my usual dosing technique. The puck picture above is from this shot. Ignore the commentary from my daughter who decided this was a good time to pinch me on the bum.

                              [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXMRe0IfAwk[/media]

                              Ive played with dose, grind, and tamp and it either pours watery or gushes. Ill try to get a vid of a single for comparison some time, but the single seems much more forgiving and pours much richer/thicker.

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