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Got to play with this for a few hours at the recent latte course at Di Bartoli. At first, it seems similar to the Giotto and as far as coffee production goes, I didnt notice any difference between the machines. Dont forget though that Im pretty much a novice!
There are some very distinguishing features with the Bezzera Domus - whilst the Giotto has a great chrome finish, the finish on the Bezzera is definitely superior. Its not so much a matter of quality, but attention to detail and further complexities of styling. An example of this is the curved sides compared to the folded metal sides on the Giotto.
At first, the angled valve taps felt uncomfortable to work with, though I think this was more to do with my being accustomed to the setup on the Giotto than ergonomics.
The Bezerra also has larger feet than the Giotto, making it more stable when locking in the PF. It also comes with a 4-hole steam wand compared to the Giottos two - personally, I liked this though one obviously needs to pay a bit more attention as the 4-hole wand speeds up the milk texturising process.
Im not sure of the RRP but understand that the Bezerra sells for a little more than the Giotto, and I can understand why - its a great machine.
I dont have any pics but you can see it on the Di Bartoli website.
There are a variety of e-61 groups....For example, expobar is eb-61. Giotto and BFC (Diadema/Makin et al) are subtly different and Vibiemme is different again.
All follow the same principles but there is variation. I would expect that most are outsourced but to individual company specs.
Originally posted by Coffee Kid link=1173411744/30#36 date=1181210535
What would be some major differences of the variations of E61 or are they all about the same that not much can be distinguished?
There are differences in shower screen and height, dispersion plate, restrictors, group seal thickness and other proprietry bits. Bottom line is that theyre all subtly different....
Originally posted by Dennis link=1173411744/30#32 date=1181049275
Got to play with this for a few hours at the recent latte course at Di Bartoli. At first, it seems similar to the Giotto and as far as coffee production goes, I didnt notice any difference between the machines. Dont forget though that Im pretty much a novice!
There are some very distinguishing features with the Bezzera Domus - whilst the Giotto has a great chrome finish, the finish on the Bezzera is definitely superior. Its not so much a matter of quality, but attention to detail and further complexities of styling. An example of this is the curved sides compared to the folded metal sides on the Giotto.
At first, the angled valve taps felt uncomfortable to work with, though I think this was more to do with my being accustomed to the setup on the Giotto than ergonomics.
The Bezerra also has larger feet than the Giotto, making it more stable when locking in the PF. It also comes with a 4-hole steam wand compared to the Giottos two - personally, I liked this though one obviously needs to pay a bit more attention as the 4-hole wand speeds up the milk texturising process.
Im not sure of the RRP but understand that the Bezerra sells for a little more than the Giotto, and I can understand why - its a great machine.
I dont have any pics but you can see it on the Di Bartoli website.
I had a quick look at the Bezzera at Di Bartolis tonight. In fact out of the whole range on display it was the one that drew my eye the most. It has a very big bling factor to it. I realy like the slight retro styling too. It also seemed to dwarf the Giotto a little as well which seemed to make it that little more appealing If I were to be considering upgrading, this machine would definitely be on my very short list. Miss Silvias days may be numbered....
Ive had a chance to see one in action and what impressed me was how quiet they have made the vibe pump. Its all in the mounting, but this thing was as quiet as my rotary at home (mind you my rotary isnt as quiet as some). Certainly pump noise shouldnt be an issue with this machine...
I agree the fit and finish of this machine is superb. You wouldnt want to put this next to an expobar in the same showroom...
Renzo let me have a play with this machine as well and its now gone to the top of the list as the eventual Silvia replacement. Build quality and looks really are something - I reckon the Giotto also has trouble competing.
Originally posted by Idler link=1173411744/30#40 date=1181538699
Renzo let me have a play with this machine as well and its now gone to the top of the list as the eventual Silvia replacement. Build quality and looks really are something - I reckon the Giotto also has trouble competing.
Oh really? :-? Its whats in the cup that counts. I have no doubt that the Bezz is a good machine- Ofra and Renzo wouldnt sell it if it wasnt- however, the Giotto has the runs on the board and for good reason....
Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1173411744/30#41 date=1181548304
Oh really? :-? Its whats in the cup that counts. I have no doubt that the Bezz is a good machine- Ofra and Renzo wouldnt sell it if it wasnt- however, the Giotto has the runs on the board and for good reason....
Yeah; its pretty funny that people devote pages and pages to comparing any statistic that has a number on it, which might not even have any bearing on whats in the cup, but very little of the discussion around prosumer machines - on any forum - actually revolves around taste. And I suppose that there are a number of good reasons, which I wont list; suffice it to say that if youre happy with the machine that you have, what more do you want? ;D
Surely part of the reason why the Giotto has so many runs on the board is because ECM have been marketing them more actively than other machines have been marketed, and for longer, because it looks cool and because the machines that are out there simply havent broken down much?
Originally posted by Sparky link=1173411744/30#43 date=1181818845
Its also funny how on the US/Canadian boards the Giotto doesnt feature anywhere near as much. Funny thing marketing.
Yeah; that is kind of wierd. But I suspect that its partly to do with the distribution network - in the US, the Giotto carries a fairly hefty premium over the more commonly distributed machines and I have never seen a post mentioning that ECM commercial machines are used in the US and Canada, whereas here they are quite popular (at least in Syndey, near ECM HQ where Peter "magic wrench" Cairis, ECMs fantastic tech, is just a car trip away).
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