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The only comment I can make, is that since you already sell the Ibertal LAnna and given that there are obvious differences between the machines, there are also obvious similarities. You would then have two machines in the showroom that would probably appeal to the same type of customer. Since you have other high quality and distinctive machines on show, wouldnt this be a good reason to settle on either the LAnna OR the Promac, but not both :-?.....
Only point Id add is the spouts seem very close to the drip tray, which looks like fitting anything other than espresso cups would be a challenge. If its aimed at the home market they could expect a fair percentage of milk drinkers who would want a larger mug to fit, and unless its the photo I think people would be disappointed.
As far as it being Rancilio heritage, check out the water tank cover and portafilter handle in the first photo. I think any Silvia owners will recognise em!
Hi Chris,
If the Promac is a rebadged Epoca - Id hope that it lives up to Rancilios quality standard.
The Epoca evolved from the S20 range of machines that as far as I can tell - are bulletproof.
I have the S27 - that you got a glimpse of at the first course you ran at Veneziano.
The 4l boiler is nickel plated copper, the panels are easily removed for service access, they use a procon rotary pump, gicleur pressurestat, copper lines throughout and the electronics seem reasonably well shielded.
The techs at Mocopan say that board failure is very rare and that the S-series machines are still sought after as (like Cimbalis) they will soldier on forever with minimal maintenance. Full commercial quality in something that can just be liveable on the kitchen bench.
Hot water is drawn direct from the boiler - no cold water mixing - so it can get very spluttery when you use it.
Steam power - stock 3 hole tip and running at 1.1 bar - is pretty strong.
The only downside - assuming the basics are the same - is that the commercial group is heated by conduction - no thermosyphon.
You also have to be spot-on with your dose/tamp as the lack of preinfusion/non E61 group hits the puck with the full 9 bar straight away and channeling occurs so much more.
I cant comment on temp stability or how hot they may get/run as I havent logged the temp curves yet.
Originally posted by luca link=1173568551/15#19 date=1173697113
Originally posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#17 date=1173682699
So plenty of choices and its good to have choices.
Good for us to have choice, but Id imagine that the last thing that Chris would want to do is to stock a machine that no-one is interested in!
Cheers,
Luca
Absolutely Luca!
Whether I range this machine will be determined by performance and value for money. I hope to grab a demo machine soon and hope you may like to come and help me run it through its paces....
Originally posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#17 date=1173682699
With the rotary pump and solenoids and a 2.4 kW element, the
Lanna should be a 15A machine. Whereas the Promac is a 10A machine.
Also you can have a choice of an E61 (solenoid variant without pre-infusion) or a Silvia group (with easily removed shower screen).
And finally theres the choice between an Italian built machine (Promac built by Rancilio) or a Spanish machine.
So plenty of choices and its good to have choices.
Cheers,
Mark.
Even though Im not currently in the market for a new machine, if I were, the Promac pair here would very much interest me. Gleaming bling is very pretty, but for those of us who have had to polish it, it can be a pain. I think, if marketed right, they could do very well, on the assumption that they are in fact rebadged Rancilios or similar quality.
Brett
Originally posted by Sparky link=1173568551/15#15 date=1173616657
Given they are commercial machines (4 l boiler) and the volumetric has a rotary pump. Id rate them very highly for home use. They certainly wouldnt have any competitor in that pricepoint. Im not sure why Rancilio rebadge their machines and sell them cheaper. The question Id ask is what corners have been cut? The answer may be none, or it may be the use of plastic thing-a-me-bobs... Who knows. It certainly would be worth getting one for a test drive though.
As for the shot quality, thats always a very subjective criterion. My guess is that itd be a moot point for most people other than the diehard espresso enthusiast for which nothing short of a La Marzocco would be considered appropriate.
Very interesting machine.
Thats my $0.02
Cheers,
Mark.
Hi Mark- the only competitor I can think of is the Iberital Handy (aka LAnna). Tank + volumetric + rotary pump + 4L boiler and 2400W element in an e-61 machine....Its under 3k...
Given they are commercial machines (4 l boiler) and the volumetric has a rotary pump. Id rate them very highly for home use. They certainly wouldnt have any competitor in that pricepoint. Im not sure why Rancilio rebadge their machines and sell them cheaper. The question Id ask is what corners have been cut? The answer may be none, or it may be the use of plastic thing-a-me-bobs... Who knows. It certainly would be worth getting one for a test drive though.
As for the shot quality, thats always a very subjective criterion. My guess is that itd be a moot point for most people other than the diehard espresso enthusiast for which nothing short of a La Marzocco would be considered appropriate.
Originally posted by telemaster link=1173568551/0#13 date=1173598238
Originally posted by Matt G link=1173568551/0#12 date=1173592856
Errr, if it has a Silvia group I guess not... :-/ Thats what I get for getting distracted while typing.
Edit: Thats what I get for not waiting for the answer ;D
Doesnt work that way,
Matt- a selling point for Rancilio Silvia and ECM Botticelli is that even though they are large single boilers, they have the same group heads as models in the parent companys commercial lines.
Brett
But selling points are only ever comparative. The Silvia and the Botticelli are heads and shoulders above other single boiler machines because other machines have inferior groups. For the group to be a selling point for the Promacs, we would have to know that it can hang with other groups available on other machines in the same price range, which is why it will be important to Chris to actually use the machine ;P
Originally posted by Matt G link=1173568551/0#12 date=1173592856
Errr, if it has a Silvia group I guess not... :-/ Thats what I get for getting distracted while typing.
Edit: Thats what I get for not waiting for the answer ;D
Doesnt work that way,
Matt- a selling point for Rancilio Silvia and ECM Botticelli is that even though they are large single boilers, they have the same group heads as models in the parent companys commercial lines.
Brett
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