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  • Vibiemme Domobar + PID

    Hi all
    I noticed on the Talk Coffee website that it has "Coming soon- Vibiemme Domobar Super Lever- dual boiler + PID.".

    I have a PIDd Silvia and I can understand that as the Silvia does not have an E61 group head and the group head is much lighter in weight so it can fluctuate in temperature depending on the state of the boiler. The PID on my Silvia relieves me from having to manually temperature surf.

    A PID on a VBM though would surely not be able to effect the heavy group head in a short time? What sort of improvement is it designed to provide in this case? A PID on a Silvia makes a huge difference but how much difference does a PID make to a high end machine?

    Mike (looking at sponsor sites as upgraditis is upon me)

  • #2
    Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

    Originally posted by speleomike link=1212727884/0#0 date=1212727884
    Hi all
    I noticed on the Talk Coffee website that it has "Coming soon- Vibiemme Domobar Super Lever- dual boiler + PID.".

    I have a PIDd Silvia and I can understand that as the Silvia does not have an E61 group head and the group head is much lighter in weight so it can fluctuate in temperature depending on the state of the boiler.  The PID on my Silvia relieves me from having to manually temperature surf.

    A PID on a VBM though would surely not be able to effect the heavy group head in a short time? What sort of improvement is it designed to provide in this case? A PID on a Silvia makes a huge difference but how much difference does a PID make to a high end machine?

    Mike (looking at sponsor sites as upgraditis is upon me)
    Hi Mike,

    The PID will give temperature control at the group, but as you correctly presume, temperature changes will be slow- due to the thermal mass of the group.

    It will however give a much better level of control than the temperature controller on the Minore II which has more in common with fridge controllers (by being one!).

    Speaking with ECA this week, they have informed me that they hope to air-freight one over for Aromafest and I will be fighting to (with my Talk Coffee hat on) be the bloke who gets to demonstrate it on the day.

    What we do know is this technology wont come cheaply and I think home users nead to really make an informed decision as to whether the complexity and expense of this technology over say a thermostable Giotto is justified  :-?. More complexity ultimately leads to higher long term running expenses so the pertinent question as always is, "Do I really need it"?

    Chris

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    • #3
      Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

      Hi Chris

      You seem to have forgotten that he who has the most toys wins

      (pirated from TG in a previous post) ;D

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

          Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1212727884/0#1 date=1212738737
          It will however give a much better level of control than the temperature controller on the Minore II which has more in common with fridge controllers (by being one!).

          Speaking with ECA this week, they have informed me that they hope to air-freight one over for Aromafest and I will be fighting to (with my Talk Coffee hat on) be the bloke who gets to demonstrate it on the day.
          Chris,

          If you do get your hands on that DB DS, for Aroma, I might have to fight you for a swap, as Ill be on the Minore II c/w fridge controller all day over at DiBarts

          YeeZa

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

            It will however give a much better level of control than the temperature controller on the Minore II which has more in common with fridge controllers (by being one!).
            Suggest that instead of making presumptions about what we get at the head based on properties of the controller, we simply grab one of the Scace devices around Melbourne and just check it out. Or we could, you know, just brew some coffee on the thing and see how it tastes - do people do that any more? ;P

            Cheers,

            Luca

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

              Originally posted by luca link=1212727884/0#5 date=1212767160
              Suggest that instead of making presumptions about what we get at the head based on properties of the controller, we simply grab one of the Scace devices around Melbourne and just check it out.  Or we could, you know, just brew some coffee on the thing and see how it tastes - do people do that any more?  ;P

              Cheers,

              Luca
              Too right you are Luca,

              The ONLY important factor is whats in the cup and is it repeatable. I think that ECA wil spec. up a formidable machine when we finally get access to it. What Im not so sure about is how many of us actually need one but agree that a new toy is always fun...

              I see a shootout in the future...

              Chris

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1212727884/0#1 date=1212738737
                <snip> so the pertinent question as always is, "Do I really need it"?
                Chris
                Hhmmm need. A good point.
                Like need as in desire?
                Like I dont need a Domobar Super. But I desired it.
                And now I have it.  And I wonder how I put up with what I had prior. Things are THAT much better.
                But need as in a PID for a Domobar? Well I cant comment, really, because I dont have one so dont know what it will really do for me and whether it will change things for me to the extent that I thought I couldnt live without it.
                But having had the Domobar for a few weeks now, I cant imagine what the big deal is with HX machine temp problems.
                Mine runs fine as is, boiler pressure surfs between 0.9 and 1.1 or 1.2,  no more, and if I was offered a PID for my domobar tomorrow for free, I think I would say "No thanks".
                If it aint broke, dont fix it.
                Havent burnt a shot yet, and the cooling flushes arent that big - duration controlled by ear - hissing stops then a bit more - what seems right...
                I hope my perspective helps.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                  Hi all

                  The Domobar Super has excellent specs and looks a great machine but its depth from the specs is 57 cm! Thats deep. My bench in the kitchen is 55 cm deep. I think that wipes out this machine for me :-(
                  Its a very narrow machine, in fact 4 cm less that the width of my Silvia + PID so I gather that the makers moved something big like a boiler to the back compared to other machines.

                  Mike

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                    The handle on the drip tray is about 2 centimeters.

                    It fits!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                      Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1212727884/0#1 date=1212738737
                      It will however give a much better level of control than the temperature controller on the Minore II which has more in common with fridge controllers (by being one!).
                      The Minore controller is surprisingly effective since the mass of the group seems to even out most of the variation in the boiler. I replaced the controller on mine with a full PID since I like to tinker and it was easy and cheap to do, but I think youd need a Scace device to tell the difference.

                      The interesting thing about a PIDed Minore (and presumably the new Domobar) is that unlike a Silvia where the boiler temp drops dramatically as you pull a shot and then you need to wait for it to rebound and settle, the combination of the 1.5l brew boiler and having it filled by the HX means that the brew boiler temp just doesnt move.

                      Ill make a string of shots, and use brew water to heat cups and flush water to clean the grouphead and the boiler temp just sits there stable. Presumably if you really pushed it it would wander and need time to settle, but in my home use its very steady.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                        Originally posted by Mark link=1212727884/0#10 date=1213055247
                        The Minore controller is surprisingly effective since the mass of the group seems to even out most of the variation in the boiler. I replaced the controller on mine with a full PID since I like to tinker and it was easy and cheap to do, but I think youd need a Scace device to tell the difference.

                        The interesting thing about a PIDed Minore (and presumably the new Domobar) is that unlike a Silvia where the boiler temp drops dramatically as you pull a shot and then you need to wait for it to rebound and settle, the combination of the 1.5l brew boiler and having it filled by the HX means that the brew boiler temp just doesnt move.

                        Ill make a string of shots, and use brew water to heat cups and flush water to clean the grouphead and the boiler temp just sits there stable. Presumably if you really pushed it it would wander and need time to settle, but in my home use its very steady.
                        Great and very valid points Mark...

                        I wonder if Jim is reading? Could be a terrific upgrade with a big market if Jim wanted to produce a plug and play kit for the Minore II?

                        Chris

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                          Originally posted by speleomike link=1212727884/0#8 date=1213019840
                          Hi all

                          The Domobar Super has excellent specs and looks a great machine but its depth from the specs is 57 cm! Thats deep. My bench in the kitchen is 55 cm deep. I think that wipes out this machine for me :-(
                          Its a very narrow machine, in fact 4 cm less that the width of my Silvia + PID so I gather that the makers moved something big like a boiler to the back compared to other machines.  

                          Mike
                          The bench that supports my machine is 53 cm wide.
                          See the photos... http://coffeesnobs.com.au/YaBB.pl?num=1211499685

                          You have got 2 cm extra!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                            Hi
                            Ohhhhh I know, I have seen your thread and oogled at it.
                            I dont think it will fit. Its nice to have some space at the front to work.
                            Still I will be taking my tape measure into Di Bartolis and have a close look and measure :-)
                            Mike

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                            • #15
                              Re: Vibiemme Domobar + PID

                              Mike,

                              So I may see you soon.

                              Regards

                              Renzo

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