Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

[flatwhite]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

What? Why didnt I get donuts with my Giotto??

[cuppacoffee]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

In a past life as a Trainer an evaluation sheet came back with the comment, "would have liked donuts with morning tea".  

Next session we supplied donuts.  

One of the evaluation comments from that session read, "donuts were cold".   ;D

Trust me...you wouldnt be happy with a $10 tamper.

[flatwhite]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Thanks Chris. Thats a generous offer.
Clearly, our definitions of "forgiving" are very different.
You say the Giotto is "the most forgiving machine in our range and with good fresh coffee, good skills and a great grinder...". What I mean is that without a great grinder and reasonable skills, it is not forgiving. With the Sunbeam, theres more margin for error because the gap between its best and its worst is so much smaller than the Giottos.
By the way, I didnt knock the packaging. Its brilliant - even the accessory packaging is a treat.
They could, however, have done a bit better with the tamper without adding $150 to the retail price. One can source a half-way decent budget tamper for around $40 retail, so they could probably bulk buy at under $10.
But these are very minor deficiencies. Overall, though, very happy.

[TC]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Hi flatwhite,

Good to hear that all is essentially going well....

FWIW, I reckon the Giotto is about the most forgiving machine in our range and with good fresh coffee, good skills and a great grinder will consistently far exceed the capabilities of the Sunbeam. Every time I have used the Sunbeam, there has been latent sourness in the shot- regardless of what coffee, set temperature, grinder etc. Nevertheless the Sunbeam is good value for money (assuming it holds together :).

With any machine, consistency is the key and you will probably vary a little as you learn your machine. As others have mentioned, a good grinder is paramount. I sold a Giotto just the other day to a person with a Solis grinder. All of the caveats were mentioned but the buyer reckons that the grinder will be fine. I know that he will be back to get the Compak/Macap/Mazzer that I encouraged in the first place. Many purchasers think that its just an upsell but its about the coffee. You dont purchase a Ferrari and then run it on diesel.

Learn your machine and definitely get that great tamper. For me, a tamper is like a chefs knife. Buy properly and you make a lifelong investment. Alternately, grab a $10 unit in your supermarket and chuck it out in 6 months in recognition that you received what you paid for. Rocket, like all of the other manufacturers recognise that tampers are a very personal choice (the tamper chooses the hand- not vice versa) and must also compete on price as well. A great tamper would push the box price up by perhaps $150 and would lead to many potential buyers simply rejecting the machine as too expensive or dumping the tamper anyway.

As for packaging/manual, I reckon Rocket has done a brilliant job. The packaging is excellent. Other manufacturers would do well to look and learn. Many machines in our range are just a machine in a garbage bag in a box with some cardboard bits at the corner to "protect". The Rocket manual is at least heading the right direction and will no doubt evolve.

As for warranty, 12 months is industry standard. Sunbeam need a longer one because their machines are complex and prone to failure.

Enjoy your machine and please feel most welcome to call for some tips if I can assist...

Chris

[twistiebrinkley]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Hi flatwhite,

A very interesting review of your Giotto journey. I too, have upgraded from the Sunbeam and found the journey to be both exhilarating and exhausting, but I wouldnt trade it for the world.

I am now somewhat poorer from the upgrade to the Giotto, as it has only been done justice when I purchased the equivalent grinder (Macap M4D). And as you mention, the supplied Giotto tamper is cheap but with Santa bringing me a Pullman my coffee is sure to meet perfection soon.

My pucks are always slightly wet when removed and I am still concerned by the whooping sound I get on some of my pours, as Im terrified of hurting my baby, but the coffee is gooooooood.

I watched Scottie Callahans videos on the ECA website, and it helped tremendously to get the honey pour.

Good luck with your adventure

[flatwhite]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

As a technology reviewer, I can’t help myself. After a week of Giotto ownership, I need to post a (non-technical) review.
My Giotto journey began after 16 months of Sunbeam EM6910 ownership. I won’t go into the EM6910 story, besides an observation that if Sunbeam put more emphasis on the manufacturing side, Poppy and her fantastic service colleagues wouldn’t have so much to do!
My initial observation about the Giotto is that it’s built like a tank – a Ferrari tank. Sturdy, solid and serious – but elegant.
The Sunbeam training and experience has obviously held me in good stead, and the Giotto is relatively easy to operate. Fill with water, prime (first time only), watch the gauge rise, push the lever, watch the treacle flow!
And it’s fortunate that it’s so easy because the owner’s manual is very poor – especially for a machine that retails at just under three grand. (I couldn’t help myself and have already contacted the factory and offered to rewrite it!)
The two most noticeable improvements over the Sunbeam are the temperature of the beverages it produces (I’d forgotten what a hot flat white was!) and the fantastic milk texturing – amazing speed and terrific texture.
The cup-warmer is like a mini nuclear power station – it really warms cups!
I am still working on improving the coffee part of the operation. The Giotto is far less tolerant than the Sunbeam, and it’s easy to produce really bad coffee. It’s taken a while to dial in the grind – and because of the size of the steps on my Sunbeam grinder, I’m still not quite there. So I am getting some fantastic shots, but I haven’t quite been able to achieve the “honey pour” which you see on in the videos.
I am also still getting slightly wet pucks which dry out between handle removal and puck disposal. This is not a dosing issue because the Sunbeam has taught me the art of updosing, so it’s certainly a grind issue which, hopefully, will improve with a new, more versatile grinder – and practice.
The other disappointment is the cheap plastic tamper supplied with the Giotto – but perhaps they’ve struck a secret deal with Greg Pullman – or maybe they know that anyone forking out the big bucks will want something special anyway.
So, a week and some fantastic, hot, silky, smooth coffees later, the Giotto is a happy addition to our kitchen.
Given the quality materials and obvious engineering advantages of this up-market machine, I am still bemused by the one-year warranty. While devotees insist it’ll last a lifetime, I can’t understand why the manufacturer or the importer can’t provide at least the two-year warranty of some of the appliances on the shelves.
And a final warning – don’t think you can buy Giotto without budgeting for a serious grinder.

[twistiebrinkley]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Hi,

Just a quick question, when I have a fine grind whilst using my Giotto, I get a whooping noise from the pump before the pour comes through. Is this normal? and is it ok?

And can anyone tell me, why a pour would start out slow (dripping) then run fast (like water) with no slow build up?

Im trying to fine tune my techniques and have had private lessons but sine the lessons, I have purchased the Macap M4D stepped doseless grinder and just cant get the pour right - I SEEK PERFECTION!!!!

[NE14COFFEE]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Product placement? Who me? No never!

I cant help it. After all, I have Dennis to thank for most of it.

Both Dennis and Chris are remarkable. I can highly recommend Talk Coffee & Cuppa Coffee They were nothing but patient while I asked a million questions, tested all the shiny machines and procrastinated. If that wasn’t enough, the after sales service has been impeccable. The best part was the proof of just how perfect the GPP is (sorry can’t help it). The scace demonstrated it was very consistent, just as Chris had predicted .

Thank you all for the thoughtful comments :-[.

Flynn, Dennis is right. I’d match the bags if I could. I know, I know.

[GregJW]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Now THATS art!!!

Beautiful setup NE1. IMO youve got the best domestic domestic combination there with messrs Giotto, Mazzer and, of course, Pullman (chequerboard! 8-)) and Wells (aka Cuppacoffee). And, from what Chris said on Saturday, the Giotto is singing like a bird!

You MUST be pulling some beautiful brews!

Congrats,
Greg

[flynnaus]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

congrats NE1! Steve, if you knew NE1 like I do, youd be surprised that the liner isnt colour co-ordinated with the rest of the kit.  Having said that I know NE1 will now be disturbed...lol

I should know better than to raise my eyebrow. Take no notice of such typical male lack of appreciation for attention to detail NE1!
Actually, my first observation was wow, what a lot of trouble to go to fit the knockbin liner in a such a neat way!

Product placement...just realised there are a few things there that came from over this way

Promo!! This is a great photo!

[Dennis]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

congrats NE1!

Steve, if you knew NE1 like I do, youd be surprised that the liner isnt colour co-ordinated with the rest of the kit. Having said that I know NE1 will now be disturbed...lol.

Product placement...just realised there are a few things there that came from over this way.

[flynnaus]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Nice setup NE1.

Looks like promo material with a bit of product placement on the left of the Giotto....(are you looking Den?)

Errr..knockbox liner???  

[TC]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Finally took a photo, I’ve had her a couple of weeks now.

Looks great NE14COFFEE!

Amazing how a super short hopper can make a SJ look just like a mini

Congrats on the new kit....

Chris

[NE14COFFEE]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

Finally took a photo, I’ve had her a couple of weeks now.

[DiBort]

Re: Giotto premium plus- discussion thread

After spending yesterday afternoon at Di Bartolis playing on the new GPP, all I can say is WOW!

Greg

I also spent an afternoon at Di Bartoli with Renzo testing out some of their machines. Had walked in with my mind 80% set on the VBM Super Lever, walked out with a Giotto PP and Compact K3 - or will do when I pickup in a few days!  ;D

Thanks to Renzo at Di Bartoli for his time, absolutely invaluable having a play with the machines before making an the $$$ investment! Look forward to the training and seting up the machine...then taking it home!  ;D

Jack

Thanks Jack for the visit and the time spent with us, I hope by now you had a good play at home with both machines and that youre getting great results! We are glad we could have been of help narrowing down the options, choosing eventually the model that suited you best, and add on this training tips as tools to accompany your journey.

All CS are welcome warmly to enjoy the same experience Jack has gone through. No appointment is needed!