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VBM - quality not quite there

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  • oton
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1225344730/40#44 date=1226535073

    Dont think so....When you put a p/f gauge on the machine, you get 12 bar.
    Oh, I see.

    Well, I dont know nothing about coffee machines (im a computer technician)... Im only trying to bring some info to the forum.  

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by oton link=1225344730/40#43 date=1226534874
    Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1225344730/0#11 date=1225458017
    I don’t believe that adjusting the OPV does anything except force the user to adjust grind size and tamp pressure to compensate for the difference

    However I have read on another forum that the Bezzera Galatea OPV is not made to adjust that’s why it is sealed with locktite and that it has a service life of over 10 years
    But I will check this out to be sure this info is correct?

    KK
    Ive read this in other forum. Maybe it was same that you read.

    "I believe the Bezzera Galatea Domus hydraulic system is somewhat unique. [...] The Ulka E4 pump may be "driven" to a ~ 12 bar discharge pressure because of the check valve shown in the pdf that Jeff S. referenced. But ~12 bar at the OPV valve (suppresion valve in Bezzeras lingo) probably translates into ~ 9 bar at the puck. In any event, I would not go about adjusting any OPV until YOU know what YOU have AT THE GROUP with the flow through the group that YOU desire."

    So its possible that bezzera 12bar setting its the optimum setting for its machine?  :-?
    Dont think so....When you put a p/f gauge on the machine, you get 12 bar. How this can translate to 9 bar at the puck, Im not sure....

    Leave a comment:


  • oton
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1225344730/0#11 date=1225458017
    I don’t believe that adjusting the OPV does anything except force the user to adjust grind size and tamp pressure to compensate for the difference

    However I have read on another forum that the Bezzera Galatea OPV is not made to adjust that’s why it is sealed with locktite and that it has a service life of over 10 years
    But I will check this out to be sure this info is correct?

    KK
    Ive read this in other forum. Maybe it was same that you read.

    "I believe the Bezzera Galatea Domus hydraulic system is somewhat unique. [...] The Ulka E4 pump may be "driven" to a ~ 12 bar discharge pressure because of the check valve shown in the pdf that Jeff S. referenced. But ~12 bar at the OPV valve (suppresion valve in Bezzeras lingo) probably translates into ~ 9 bar at the puck. In any event, I would not go about adjusting any OPV until YOU know what YOU have AT THE GROUP with the flow through the group that YOU desire."

    So its possible that bezzera 12bar setting its the optimum setting for its machine?  :-?

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by Intellidepth link=1225344730/40#41 date=1225916044
    Im really really happy with my VBM. I have no leaks from the drip tray whatsoever, never cut myself, my drip tray only vibrates when Ive had the full cover off and screwed it up too tight - just loosen the screws a smidge and alls well. My lenses (Id never looked at them quite this way before) are clear.

    I do acknowledge the brew pressure opening wasnt thought through, and Im sure theyll work on that. Its a bit too fundamental to miss on the next upgrade. But hey, Ive only needed to adjust it on one day to get it in the ball park, and two flathead screwdrivers side-by-side worked just fine. And I certainly aint a mechanic.

    Mine looks well-finished under the hood as well as on the outside.

    I have great stability of temperature through the grouphead, and it makes great coffee. Im happy. No regrets.
    Agreed Intellidepth,

    I get to look under the hood of quite a few machines and the internal build of the VBM is a great example of terrific- shrouded switches, wiring well tied back, boiler well supported, great internal architecture etc...There are many other good brands and some shockers as well.

    Given that there should be no need for an end user to be poking around inside a machine- as there should be a full bench test to check that everything is in order, the only person at risk of a cut from a sharp edge would be a techie  :-?. I suspect that cuts are possible once you start fiddling around in the recesses of a Merc or Ferrari as well.

    For mine, tinkerers shouldnt be surprised if/when they break something and get a refusal on warranty service.

    One example that comes to mind with VBM owners is that the system pressure gauge will not read much more than 2 bar without a loaded p/f or blind filter locked in and the pump operating. You cant pressurise nothing...and yet the number of calls I get :. These owners have often taken it upon themselves to screw the OPV all the way in...and yet still get less than 9 bar....

    Next, a broken pump or pump solenoid? Whos responsible??

    The lesson is choose a good operation which cares about what they sell...You choose a dodgy cowboy and you will most likely purchase a box as it left the factory which simply screwed the components together and that was it. It might cost you a few bucks more, but you will get a correctly set up machine as well as peace of mind.

    Chris

    Leave a comment:


  • Intellidepth
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Im really really happy with my VBM. I have no leaks from the drip tray whatsoever, never cut myself, my drip tray only vibrates when Ive had the full cover off and screwed it up too tight - just loosen the screws a smidge and alls well. My lenses (Id never looked at them quite this way before) are clear.

    I do acknowledge the brew pressure opening wasnt thought through, and Im sure theyll work on that. Its a bit too fundamental to miss on the next upgrade. But hey, Ive only needed to adjust it on one day to get it in the ball park, and two flathead screwdrivers side-by-side worked just fine. And I certainly aint a mechanic.

    Mine looks well-finished under the hood as well as on the outside.

    I have great stability of temperature through the grouphead, and it makes great coffee. Im happy. No regrets.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dimal
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by Dennis link=1225344730/20#27 date=1225852759
    And if it were the same colour then you could complain that its too hard to discern whether its on or off. Price of the machine has absolutely nothing to do with the choice of colours.
    Dennis has hit the nail on the head.... This is very common practice where status indication lighting clusters are used. Makes for a very definite and obvious "state change" indication and avoids the prospect of confusion. Dont know how important this is with an espresso machine but the practice is close to being standard where complex control panels are involved.

    Mal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by Koffee Kosmo link=1225344730/20#38 date=1225867446
    I thought hand made meant

    "Superior make and rigorous inspections"
    "No small Detail Overlooked"

    KK

    Bzzz - wrong again. Hand made means hand made. :P

    Leave a comment:


  • Koffee_Kosmo
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    I thought hand made meant

    "Superior make and rigorous inspections"
    "No small Detail Overlooked"

    KK

    Leave a comment:


  • garbage
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1225344730/20#34 date=1225859258
    These are hand made machines and subject to some variation....
    Im sorry, but "hand made variations" dont excuse the sharp edges, poorly aligned brew pressure screw and leaking drip trays.  I am surprised you dont have higher expectations of a machine that costs $2500.

    Originally posted by 2muchcoffeeman link=1225344730/20#34 date=1225859258
    Maybe its time to pull some shots rather than looking at it to see what else you can find "wrong"  :-?
    As Ive said, Im very happy with the shots it makes.  I just would have expected Vibiemme to cross the Ts and dot the Is a bit better considering the price of the thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thundergod
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by Dennis link=1225344730/20#35 date=1225861219
    Some people see the glass half full, others see it half empty.
    Dont forget the third possibility, which seems appropriate in this case..."the glass is the wrong size".

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    garbage, having a different coloured lens or light is not, I repeat, not, a design fault and not an oversight.  For whatever reason, VBM choose to build the machines this way.  I would expect that it actually requires more care to get the lenses and lights in the right order than it would if they were all the same colour.  I dont think it would matter what colour they chose, youd find something wrong with it.  

    Like your example of purchasing a car, if the manufacturer chooses to use polka dot coloured lenses and you dont like it, you either live with it or get a different car.  If these machines were as faulty as you suggest, people simply wouldnt buy them...which is far from the case.

    I dont wish to offend, but cant help thinking that you may only be happy when you are unhappy.  Some people see the glass half full, others see it half empty.  Yours seems completely empty at the moment.  Why not try topping it up with an espresso from your machine and enjoy what it has to offer.

    Im moving on....I hope you do too.

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Originally posted by garbage link=1225344730/20#33 date=1225857688
    Put it this way.  If you spent $125k on a Mercedes, would you be happy to live with a design oversight such as water leaking into the boot?  Or a reversing light that was creamy coloured on one side and white on the other?  How about razor sharp edges under the bonnet?  Or a rattle in the glove box?
    Hi Garbage,

    If we apply that logic, you would have purchased a Synesso at more like $8.5k...and it would have imperfections as well.

    These are hand made machines and subject to some variation....

    Maybe its time to pull some shots rather than looking at it to see what else you can find "wrong" :-?

    2mcm

    Leave a comment:


  • garbage
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Put it this way. If you spent $125k on a Mercedes, would you be happy to live with a design oversight such as water leaking into the boot? Or a reversing light that was creamy coloured on one side and white on the other? How about razor sharp edges under the bonnet? Or a rattle in the glove box?

    Leave a comment:


  • TC
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    Seeing as its a big heavy box of oversights and design faults, Ill give you $500 for it....

    Sounds like you will be glad to be rid of it....

    Leave a comment:


  • Dennis
    replied
    Re: VBM - quality not quite there

    garbage, with your particular style of attention to detail I would have thought you would have spent more time looking for these "faults" before you decided to purchase. Keep looking though...Im sure youll find more faults with it.

    Leave a comment:

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