Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Descaling HX boilers

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Re: Descaling HX boilers

    Originally posted by 0612090E07053F0417050C0C0512600 link=1232266712/14#14 date=1232422418
    The water from your desal plant is treated by reverse osmosis - does that count?

    Grant
    Maybe

    Not only does RO come in many different strengths, the end result also depends on the input.

    I would want the factual information from the water authorities rather than relying on general principles.

    Greg

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Descaling HX boilers

      I live in the northern suburbs and a large proportion of our water is from underground sources mixed with some dam water so there would be all sorts of nasties in it.
      I will get a water softener for my water tank and look at getting a rain tank for next winter me thinks!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Descaling HX boilers

        Originally posted by 270A0E020F630 link=1232266712/4#4 date=1232272507
        Originally posted by 7C233B2D262D2128282B2B232F204E0 link=1232266712/2#2 date=1232270795
        Im not that crazy on straight citric as it can lift plaques of scale which can then cause blockages in other areas. The good commercial descalers also contain sulphonic acid which will dissolve the plaques. A small amount of money well spent IMHO.
        Yep, Im with you Chris and can vouch for how great a job the Bombora "Clean Machine - Triple Action" descaler works. Brought up the internals of my little Bezzs Boiler, the Heat Exchanger, the Group and all associated pipework to as good as new condition. Highly recommended over the use of Citric Acid on its own.... 8-)

        Mal.

        Originally posted by 3416100B0C0610630 link=1232266712/5#5 date=1232273909
        What you use really depends on whether or not youre doing the descale in-situ or remotely by taking the whole boiler out.
        sooo, following this discussion, what is the consensus then : use cafetto, bombora etc for in-situ descaling, and citric acid for heavy duty descaling of dismantled components ???
        I have seen advice on cleaning and "freeing up" of Procon pumps by immersing in citric acid... www.espresso-restorations.com/pumpmotor.html
        ....bottom of page ...is this safe to do to the pump??
        thanks for any input
        buff

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Descaling HX boilers

          Originally posted by 73647777110 link=1232266712/17#17 date=1233126108
          sooo, following this discussion, what is the consensus then : use cafetto, bombora etc for in-situ descaling, and citric acid for heavy duty descaling of dismantled components ???
          I have seen advice on cleaning and "freeing up" of Procon pumps by immersing in citric acid... www.espresso-restorations.com/pumpmotor.html
          ....bottom of page ...is this safe to do to the pump??
          thanks for any input
          Gday "buff",

          I think it is still very much a "horses for courses" kind of thing. The Bombora triple action descaler I referred to can be used in which ever way suits you and the circumstances of your machine. It is definitely better to use than citric acid on its own whether the machine is stripped down or in situ as some of my Bezzera parts had been cleaned that way before I bought the triple action. It leaves a much cleaner and less eroded appearance to the surface of either copper or brass and for me, I wont be going back to using just citric acid.

          Even descaled all of the pipework internals using hoses and a pond pump to circulate the liquid but I didnt worry about the original pump as it was working well and silently, before the strip down, so cant help you there. I dont think itd be a good idea to leave the pump sitting in citric acid for too long though as any scale or other matter that may have been loosened could travel into nooks and crannies of the pump body/internals, only to be released later and cause physical damage. Im not absolutely certain but citric acid may also cause deterioration to pump seals and bearings which of course is not desirable. Also, this design of pump relies on the maintenance of very close working tolerances so any erosion from within the pump body or impeller system may render the pump useless at worst or less efficient at best.

          Its really hard to imagine that a pump could become severely scaled up anyway, since its not in a Hot Water Circuit as such. I guess it would be possible for the pump to draw in foreign matter from an unfiltered water source and if the history of the machine isnt known I guess this would be something to consider. Procon pumps are not really designed to be rebuilt/maintained by the end-user, unless you have all the necessary skills and a properly equipped mechanical workshop. Apparently though, there is a business in Melbourne who do rebuild them so if worse comes to worst, you may be able to purchase an exchange unit from them if needed.

          If youre planning a machine rebuild, why dont you buy a 1.0Lt container of Bomboras Triple Action Descaler and compare its effectiveness with a citric acid solution on similar parts. Im sure youll be impressed and leave the citric acid in the cupboard in future. All the best

          Mal.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Descaling HX boilers

            Hey green man, I do my isomac exactly like it says in the instruction manual, I would like to think that given they (Isomac) have been making these machines for so long they should have some idea of what they are talking about.  I dont do it every month thought maybe every 3,  I only use filtered water. (brita). I also figure if you cant get all the descaler out, well its only vinegar, and youll taste it when its not all gone.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Descaling HX boilers

              Thanks, Mal...I have some remaining supplies of cafetto restore descaler and citric acid....will use these up on the boiler, but then get some triple action for the rest.
              thanks for your advice

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Descaling HX boilers

                Youre most welcome "buff"....

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Descaling HX boilers

                  For Giotto owners, I didnt see anyting in the manual about descaling, so I checked with the factory.
                  This is what Andrew Meo replied:

                  Descaling is a job best left for professionals.


                  In order to do a complete job, the machine must be stripped down completely. This enables all pipe work probes and sensors to be completely cleaned or replaced if necessary.


                  The water quality used will determine whether it is necessary to de scale a machine or not. Many machines that have used a good water quality (ie not a hard water) may almost never need descaling.
                  Other machines that have been filled with a mineral water or hard water may need descaling within a year!


                  The answer is to use filtered water; many plumbers fit water softners to an additional tap on your kitchen bench to enable the supply of filtered water for drinking. Alternatively, German company Brita (amongst others I am sure) produce a water jug and filter system that can be filled with tap water, the filter system then removes the hard particles from this water, also perfect for the espresso machine.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Descaling HX boilers

                    Id mirror Attilios comments,

                    By far the best way of managing scale is to avoid letting it into the machine in the first place.

                    The water softening cartridges Attilio has as standard fitment on the Diadema clearly do the job very well. Its rare to see any significant buildup if the cartridge has been maintained correctly.

                    These can (and should) be fitted to any machine with a tank and silicon inlet hoses and can be purchased from CosmoreX.

                    The nature of Bezzera and Rocket tanks does not allow for the fitment of these cartridges. Best bet is to get a Brita or similar jug.

                    FWIW, at my shed, I have a high quality Bombora scale inhibiting filter just connected to a separate tap. I use it to fill the tank of anything coffee related. It also makes for beautiful drinking water.

                    With many aussie dams at very low levels, there is lots of gunk in the water and I think all home uses should be incorporating filtration and softening into their routine...

                    2mcm

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Descaling HX boilers

                      Forum participants please note, there seems to be some ongoing confusion between water FILTRATION, and water SOFTENING and SCALE INHIBITION.

                      A water FILTER is not necessarily a water softener. A water FILTER filters solids out of the water passing through it.

                      The scale that comes out of solution when the water is heated in a coffee machine was not a solid until it came out of solution in the machine. Therefore a water FILTER that is not a water softener or does not have scale inhibiting properties, DOES NOT DO ANYTHING FOR SCALE because at the point the water is passing through it, the "scale" is in solution in the water, has not actually been turned into scale yet, is not a solid, and cannot be filtered out. Therefore it passes straight through the FILTER and once it comes into contact with heat in the machine, the scale is then formed and lodges inside.

                      To stop the formation of scale in your machine you need a water softener or a water filter with scale inhibiting properties.  ie A water filter that does not also soften or inhibit scale, does not do the job required.

                      Hope this clears up any confusion.

                      Regardz,
                      Attilio
                      first / original CS site sponsor, professional coffee roaster and equipment importer / trader.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Descaling HX boilers

                        Originally posted by 43494451524D4C5140250 link=1232266712/22#22 date=1233700009
                        For Giotto owners, I didnt see anyting in the manual about descaling, so I checked with the factory.
                        This is what Andrew Meo replied:

                        Descaling is a job best left for professionals.


                        In order to do a complete job, the machine must be stripped down completely. This enables all pipe work probes and sensors to be completely cleaned or replaced if necessary.


                        The water quality used will determine whether it is necessary to de scale a machine or not. Many machines that have used a good water quality (ie not a hard water) may almost never need descaling.
                        Other machines that have been filled with a mineral water or hard water may need descaling within a year!


                        The answer is to use filtered water; many plumbers fit water softners to an additional tap on your kitchen bench to enable the supply of filtered water for drinking. Alternatively, German company Brita (amongst others I am sure) produce a water jug and filter system that can be filled with tap water, the filter system then removes the hard particles from this water, also perfect for the espresso machine.

                        this how i did mine last time. Stripped it down.
                        Not a hard job, but definately not something you want to be doing every year.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Descaling HX boilers

                          I have pulled the boiler out of an old Brasilia I am trying to restore...for the life of me I cannot get the element out....nuts are off the bolts, but element and its gasket seem welded to boiler by crud.
                          My question is ...can I fully immerse boiler, with element, in citric in the hope it removes enough crud to enable removal of element??? Will doing this with element electrical connections exposed ruin the element ??? (element does work ATM)
                          Thanks for any opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Descaling HX boilers

                            Buff,

                            You can soak the complete boiler - but that will definitely wreck the element (moisture will soak into the insulation at the end of the element and short out the internals.....)

                            However the element might not only be held on by the "crud" - being scale - but also by some type of gasket goo. This isnt required - and shouldnt be used..... but that isnt to say it has been!

                            If only scale is holding the element in place a sharp tap with a soft hammer will loosen it (scale is quite brittle).... but if gasket goo has been used - neither the sharp tap or descaling will help..... you will need to (carefully) prise the surfaces apart at the gasket.... a sharp ended flat blade screwdriver forced into the gasket at several places around its circumference will normally achieve the desired result.

                            Good luck!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Descaling HX boilers

                              Thanks JB...I have tried the hammer/driver approach...obviously need to try a bigger hammer ;D

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X