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Expobar Minore III

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  • Expobar Minore III

    Over the last few months Ive been trying to get a machine to replace the Silvia, without spending thousands of dollars. As a result of my shopping around Ive now got a 2 group Faema Express, an ECM Veneziano_ A2 (2 group) and a La Pavoni Europiccola, in addition to the Silvia, the Presso and a plunger. Unfortunately while these are excellent machines in their own right, none of these provide the ideal domestic solution of a moderately sized device with excellent thermostability qualities, able to churn out the drinks in quick succession when required, and with the easily adjustable qualities of the Silvias PID.

    Thursday just gone I walked into The Coffee Barun to deliver some tampers and Mark had two of the latest Expobar Minore IIIs on the shelf. And then there was one.  

    Initial results are excellent - shots have been more persistent than with the Silvia and milk performance is definitely a step up. Warm-up time is surprisingly short, though considering each boiler is fed by a 2000w element its not unexpected. Quality control isnt brilliant - one of the pressure gauges wasnt oriented correctly in the cutout, the hot water wand fouls with the group lever when over the drip tray (and its not cool-touch either!) and some unseen panels have all sorts of straight line markings to line up where to drill / punch holes in the panels. But none of that affects the shot quality which is excellent. Hopefully this will permanently inoculate me against the upgrade monster!

    Now I just have to get rid of the other four machines!  


  • #2
    Re: Expobar Minore III

    Congratulations;

    very good choice and very nice pictures.

    Regards


    Renzo

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Expobar Minore III

      I thought brewtus III was feed by 1000w element - 2x1000 not 2x2000. And never the two elements are on at the same time.

      Congrats Greg. Hope you enjoy it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Expobar Minore III

        Buenos dias Otton:

        The Minore III here in Australia the machine come with 2x2000 watts elements. I do not know how is sold in other markets. The way that is done is by only one element work at the time.

        Regards


        Renzo

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Expobar Minore III

          Agreed, see attached. Though the naming on the plate is a bit odd, mine definitely isnt an Office Leva. Boiler volumes are also listed as 1.5L not 1.7L which Id read elsewhere. Silvias element is 1100W for 300ml so it would be a real slug on the warm-up if less power was heating five times the volume.

          Hit the first hurdle when it wouldnt turn on last night! Eventually discovered the water level in the tank was a bit too low! :-[ : Shots are definitely more persistent and blonding takes longer to onset, Im guessing the preinfusion has something to do with that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Expobar Minore III

            Im curious as to how an E-61 group is set up for this double boiler machine. As I understand it, an E-61 group was designed for use on an HX machine using a thermosyphon circuit through the group. So, in this machine, is the thermosyphon circuit used at all? And if so, what is it connected to?

            thanks,
            Bill

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Expobar Minore III

              Originally posted by 517A7F7F130 link=1232770787/5#5 date=1233059425
              Im curious as to how an E-61 group is set up for this double boiler machine. As I understand it, an E-61 group was designed for use on an HX machine using a thermosyphon circuit through the group. So, in this machine, is the thermosyphon circuit used at all? And if so, what is it connected to?

              thanks,
              Bill
              I think that the thermosyphon loop is connected into the brew boiler. It has brew temperature water flowing through it. From memory, the BIII also preheats the brew water via a HX through the steam boiler.

              Cheers,

              Luca

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Expobar Minore III

                Luca is correct, the thermosyphon runs from the brew boiler as it does on E61 single boiler machines such as the Diadema Perfetta and the Vibiemme Domobar Piccolo. The common assumption (which I shared until a few minutes ago!) is that the temperature of the water flowing through the Minores E61s thermosyphon loop is much lower than what it would be through a typical HX setup; Im guessing the difference isnt actually as much as is sometimes presumed. The water in a HXs thermosyphon loop comes from the cooler water within the thermosyphon itself and associated pipework (not from the boiler where many litres of water sit well over 100C), and the thermal loss in the system (group, pipework etc) aim to keep the water in that system around the high 90s. The water in the Minores boiler may well be at a very similar temperature to a HXs - the display shows the predicted brew temperature, not the boiler temperature, and that prediction presumably takes into account the drop in water temperature as it enters the group - so when the display reads 93 or whatever, the water temperature in the boiler may well be more like 100 and much closer to the thermodynamics of the HX system for which the group was designed. Bear in mind this is largely my assumptions which arent backed up with hard data yet - I guess this would be a good investigation one quiet day with a datalogging multimeter!

                And yes, theres a preheater running through the steam boiler. See pic.

                Greg

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                • #9
                  Re: Expobar Minore III

                  Has Expobar got someone who speaks English to write the manual yet?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Expobar Minore III

                    Not from the looks of the one that came with my machine! And it was for a Minore II anyway! : So much for "if all else fails, read the manual"!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Expobar Minore III

                      Originally posted by 4D584F4D5A5F4646474B442A0 link=1232770787/7#7 date=1233096712
                      so when the display reads 93 or whatever, the water temperature in the boiler may well be more like 100
                      The B2 controller had a default of 6 degreee offset. I.e if the displayed set point is 93 the actual setpoint is 99 - take into account B2 over shoot and the brew boiler temp may be up to 107.

                      As the physical layout and mechanics of the B3 are still the same i would expect there is still a default 6 degree offset (without the overshoot).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Expobar Minore III

                        Originally posted by 482A0 link=1232770787/8#8 date=1233100374
                        Has Expobar got someone who speaks English to write the manual yet?

                        Here is one manual in English. It is for the Minore [Brewtus] II dated 2005.

                        Would appreciate any expert comments on the usefulness of this manual to the Minore III.

                        <http://brewtus.googlegroups.com/web/Brewtus+Operating+Manual.pdf?gda=DMtlbU4AAAAJHpP0V 1anbDI5IoGzQMEVsDwhoEZGNgxfyYMRabfOkpuhz7y7rJKO589 Esw1e2G8vy2lp-x5vwEVz1PNbrEh047Cl1bPl-23V2XOW7kn5sQ>

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Expobar Minore III

                          That manual is certainly a whole lot better than the one supplied with the machine. Since the controller is the only main difference between the II and the III its good for all but the controller.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Expobar Minore III

                            Hello All,

                            Ive just bought this machine and thought I would share my thoughts on it.  Since its not bought from stores where you can take things back, I feel the need to point out my disappointment and frustration with this machine.  

                            I had read about it before I bought it, and thought that it would be worth the investment.  This machine is a big jump from my previous machine. (EM6910)

                            When I got it out of the box and put it on the bench, I thought "Great, Ive finally got a real machine!”  So, then I went to plug it in and saw that the cord was getting crushed.  I was sure they wasn’t anything laying on the bench when I put it down, so I took a closer look.  The feet for this machine are way to short!!  The cable is getting crushed by the machine because there is no room for it, with those little rubber feet.  Also while looking at the bottom of it I saw what looked like crooked screws.   Can this be deliberate or had someone been on the turps while assembling this machine?  This is not the only thing that concerns me. There is an awful lot of sharp metal around the machine and the tray is poorly fitting.  Its a lot of trouble to remove the tray and place it back, and thats if you dont cut you hand on the thing.  The Expobar badge was screwed onto a plate and done up with ordinary nuts.  They should be using Stainless steel cap nuts. This might be a minor point, but again at this price I expect everything to fit and function like a bought one.  You would expect the same from your 50” LCD TV, why not a coffee machine?

                            This is the quality I expect from a prototype, not an end product, especially at this price point.  When I’m buying something from a specialist store and something that is quite expensive, I shouldn’t have to get the thing out of the box inside the store and go over it with the fine tooth comb looking for defects etc.

                            The warranty booklet says that you cant modify it etc, but I think Im going to have to get out the metal file and Dremel to fix what should have been done before the thing was assembled.  Also, I definitely need to replace those feet!  I can’t believe Expobar has been so stingy with the feet.  (Industry name is ‘Glide’) See NON-Sponsor Commercial Link removed in accordance with the Site Sales and Posting Policy

                            What are peoples thoughts on this?
                            Is theirs the same or did I get a dud?
                            Have people made their own mods that enhance the machine?
                            If you think Im over the top, would you be ok if your new $2900 TV had similar issues, cut your fingers and didnt line up?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Expobar Minore III

                              Have you voiced these concerns to the people you purchased it off?
                              I have the Minore II and, whilst it is a different model, have none of the issues you have mentioned.

                              The feet on mine are rather tall and were the cause of many people decalring the machine ugly. I daresay the shorter feet were a reaction to this, but I am equally sure that the larger feet are still available and could be swapped in if needed.
                              I dont have a front-on pic on my flickr at present, but here is one from the side (ignore the lopsided rosetta in the foreground).
                              http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/2731834738_a7211e1581.jpg
                              That should give you an idea of the feet on my model (which I quite like actually).

                              I have no issues removing the drip tray and have NEVER sliced any skin open on any part of my machine. For my machine, I simply lift the grille up and remove the drip tray without any issue. I usually leave the grille in place with the blue chux under the return to catch any stray drips whilst emptying. When cleaning the grille, it also comes out without fuss.

                              Cant say Ive ever checked the bolts holding the Expobar badge on, but Ive had mine for 2.5 years and havent noticed anything bad happening in the area.

                              Mainly though, I would suggest you talk to the supplier about the issues you have and see what they have to say.

                              Brett.

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