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  • Small semi commercial machine or not...

    Hi Guys, I am having trouble deciding whether or not to upgrade from the Ikon (which i believe is capable of pulling some very good shots). I assume that a Dual boiler or HX machines would perform where the Ikon cannot (ie steam, entertaining, decent group set etc).

    Does anyone know of anything that might be considered annoying to live with the larger machines (those with 2 - 4 litre boilers) ?



  • #2
    Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

    A few I can think of but not really deal breakers:
    1. Takes longer to heat up before pulling shots.
    2. Use a lot more power
    3. You have no kitchen bench space left for anything else...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

      I have just taken home a new Giotto having upgraded from an Ascasio/Ilve Dream unit.

      I can honestly say that there is nothing annoying about having a high end machine! Have only just begun to play around with the unit and so far it is pulling great shots - even with the sunbeam grinder!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

        Hi Hooked,

        I suspect that the only thing which might annoy you is that you waited so long to upgrade!

        You will see a quantum leap in the cup when paired with good, fresh beans, a quality grinder and good technique...

        Were happy to assist with some sugestions if you ultimately choose to go down this pathway.

        Happy shopping

        Chris

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        • #5
          Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

          I guess i was thinking about how flushing out stale water (after not using it for a few days) would be slightly annoying b/c of the larger boiler size. Judging from your responses, the benefits seem to out way any of the negatives.

          Thanks for the prompt responses.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

            So hooked

            What is your budget including grinder
            And what machine/s are in your short list

            Let me be one of the first to tell you that your taste buds wont believe what hit them when you feed them coffee made from fresh beans made in a prosumer machine

            Ohh did I say that - steam, entertaining, decent group coffee session is a breeze
            I should know I use a prosumer machine

            I say go for it

            KK

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            • #7
              Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

              Well my budget is definitely sub 2k for the machine (excluding grinder) , so i am considering a second hand unit. I am currently undertaking negotiations with the wife regarding the $... I am also keen to get started on a car project so i am a bit conscious of $ at the moment.

              I am having a lot trouble choosing a specific machine I started out looking at the expobar leva, VBM piccolo, Isomac Zaffiro ( i know single boilers...),. But lately my attention has been more on the second hand units that pop up, including some of the older bezzeras, commercial verona single groups, and that San Marino that sold the other day. I am a bit all over the place really if you hadnt noticed.
              I know there is a Galatea in the 4 sale section, which I think about often.... It sounds like you are very happy with yours.

              Grinder, currently using a Iberital challenge and not minding the fine adjustments for now, probably will just stick with that for the short term to minimize the $ outlay.

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              • #8
                Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                Grinder, currently using a Iberital challenge and not minding the fine adjustments for now, probably will just stick with that for the short term Wink to minimize the $ outlay
                I also started with the Iberital it was a good performer but I upgraded

                Used machines from Barazi within your budget (tell me if any take your fancy  )

                http://barazi.com.au/Newsflash/Bezzera-Pre-Loved-2nd-Hand-Machines/

                KK

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                  I have checked that site out before, it seems that they have all been traded in for Galateas. They are certainly within my budget, I have considered the 99, but i keep thinking about something with an e61 for a little more $.

                  Dont worry i am on the prowl, I almost bought an ozzy Bo-ema about a month ago. I cannot believe how many Italian brands there are.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                    Hi Hooked, I have trodden a fairly rapid road of upgraditis going from a drip filter to a Saeco Via Venezia, to a Silvia then PIDd her and was getting great shots but when guests came over I couldnt keep up with their caffeine requirements and decided I had to have an HX. Ive only had her a couple of weeks but shes settled in very nicely, is a lot more forgiving than Silvia and I am amble to produce shot after shot and steam milk at will.
                    If you can manage the $$ for an HX go for it, you wont have to upgrade again and matched with a good grinder you will be in coffee heaven.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                      Hi Hooked. I must agree with Greenman 100%.

                      Like you, I set up a grinder and machine for around $1500 budget 12 months ago only to find I had the same frustrations as you. Especially when entertaining guests.

                      Have just spent the last hour setting up the Giotto and part of me regrets not just waiting an extra month or two to buy the better machine first.

                      That said, I am more than happy with the new purchase.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                        Originally posted by 103737333D3C580 link=1233395771/4#4 date=1233398384
                        I guess i was thinking about how flushing out stale water (after not using it for a few days)
                        Dont tell me you dont drink coffee every day!?? :-?

                        I have the Expobar Leva and its been great since day one.
                        As far as changing over the boiler water, I flush a little every day when giving my milk jug a final rinse.
                        My wife hasnt complained about her long blacks yet, and she only drinks one every few days.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                          Actually, with a HX machine, you dont pull shots out of the main boiler - the water to the group gets heated as the pipe that it runs through is immersed within the boiler so it picks up heat indirectly and the volume of this pipe is not ver large. That is why they are called heat exchangers.

                          With a dual boiler machine like the Minore series, you will have the potential issue of stale water as a large amount of water that goes to the group does get heated and stored but whether you notice it or not is debatable.

                          I have used a couple of e-61 machines and can honestly say that overall (machines do differ a bit besides the group) they do seem to be a little more forgiving than a non-e61 HX machines but not to the extent that it becomes an issue. Then again, Ive used domestic Gaggias for a long time and that makes me fairly anal in my extraction procedure so people who have only ever used HX machines may find the non-e61 machines a fair bit more finicky.

                          I have recently acquired a very old BZ99 and after a bit of refurbishment, it is a very nice machine to use and heats up a lot more quickly than some other HX machines (eg Brugnetti Simona Top). A machine from Barazi would work properly straight out of the box.

                          I agree totally with NewEspressos list of disadvantages. I still love how my domestic Gaggias can pull great shots within 6 minutes from turn on.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                            Originally posted by 1824392228293E2B23284C0 link=1233395771/11#11 date=1233404876
                            Dont tell me you dont drink coffee every day!??  :-?
                            I do, just not always at home.

                            I dont mind Expobar at all, I made about 15 coffees using the Minore II on friday, a friend of mine owns one and is neglecting it (feeds it stale beans!!!!!!!!!!!). I brought around some fresh Campos beans.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Small semi commercial machine or not...

                              Thanks for the factual info Kaanage, much appreciated.

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