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  • Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

    Hello all!

    My first post here.

    I have been reading the forum, especially its Bezzera part, for a while now. I am in the UK so long way from Australia but you do not find that many Bezzera users back here.

    To cut the log story short, I am to pick up (next Saturday) an old Bezzera BZ35e full auto (I believe it falls in the right price bracket). The seller (from e-bay) claims that when plugged in it does not warm up. It is a plumbed in version (I hope for a rotary but I know they have plumbed in with an Ulka vib pump as well).

    I got it for a reasonable price, £ 130 hoping that the restoration (I was after the project) would not cost too much (fingers crossed): an element can be had for £ 45. I hope it is not the Gicar control box but I will know in a week time. The model I am talking about was made in 2000. I hope it has the Sirai or Parker pressurestat inside. I am going for full strip down, descale, replacing all O-rings and gaskets. Cleaning the valves, replacing the vacuum valve and the boiler sfatey valve for the sake of safety.

    My question after all this babbling is how much the brewing group is different from the E61 machines? Is it passively warmed up or is there any thermosyphon-like configuration? I currently have a Fracino Heavenly with modified E61 group (I personally do not know what modification exaclty) that needs lots of flushing before pulling a shot. I have read that the Bezzera go from 8 ounces down to 1-2. Is that the case?

    I have read some reviews on Pasquini Livia 90 (they say it is Bezzera inside, alhtouhg not sure that they meant BZ35e, at least the bolier size is different). Some things said about the boiler flaking and causing shortcuts with the level measuring electrodes a bit scared mee.
    Any other suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you in advance!

    Cheers,
    John

  • #2
    Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

    Suggest maybe you go straight to the experts - the Aust importer is a site sponsor here - Barazi, see link to the left.....

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

      Hi Simsy,

      I will do contact them. I hope that Rinzo would come across this and might answer.

      I would like to upload the image that the seller put on e-bay. The question I have is all BZ35e that I find online do not have a boiler gauge and this one has. It is nine year old model but still, can it be so different?


      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

        Welcome John.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

        Hope youre nicely rugged up there mate, looks pretty cold on the few news broadcasts Ive seen lately.... Good coffee weather though

        Have attached a section from a Bezzera Manual that looks to be similar to the unit youve just bought. From this, it would appear that this Bezz uses conduction direct from the Boiler to maintain satisfactory Group temperature. If you want to download the entire manual, theres a link on the Barazi website where you can do this.

        Anyway, hope this helps a bit....

        Cheers,
        Mal.

        P.S.
        My Bezz is an older model that is significantly different under the hood to yours and does employ a thermosyphon loop to the Group. Build quality is excellent and I cant see any lessening of that quality in more current models. If youre not sure about any aspect of your Bezz though, Im sure that either Chris or Jack at Barazi will be happy to offer advice and also fellow Sponsor Renzo, of Di Bartoli who you referred to above.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

          Hi Mal,

          Thanks for your early reply I have just seen it was 2:49 am.

          Thanks for the manual!

          My bad referring to Renzo as a Barrazi man. I have read in full your post on refurbishing your Bezz. I remember your cocmment that you were suprised to find a thermosyphon in the group head. Does this mean that you need to flush more?

          I am really hopeful that the machine would not need much repair. I should know in a week.

          Great site you have here! And the sense of humour alongsisde the helpful advice, what more a coffee geek can ask for

          It is a bit cold in here. I am originally from a colder country where you can get 20 C below zero in the winter so the current weather is very friendly to me.

          Cheers,

          John

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

            Originally posted by 725750566761574B4B594A515956380 link=1234695363/4#4 date=1234715674
            It is a bit cold in here. I am originally from a colder country where you can get 20 C below zero in the winter so the current weather is very friendly to me.
            Better you than me John.... I get cold way before the mercury gets close to Zero ;D

            After giving the Bezz a really good clean, inside and out, I put it back together briefly to make sure everything was working properly before stripping down again to allow me to restore her back to as new condition as I can do.

            Anyway, part of the recondition work was to rebuild the Sirai p/stat with new innards, seals, etc and a good clean. After firing the (young)girl back up again, I reset the p/stat to maintain a Boiler Pressure of 0.9Bar from a high of 1.5Bar originally. Ive also installed a slightly smaller gicleur in the Group too and combined with the above Boiler Pressure, cooling flushes are quite manageable at less than 50ml after the machine has been sitting idle for an extended period. Shot to shot stability is also pretty good at 93-94C with a run of half-a-dozen shots in a row (thats about the most I would ever do with normal use).

            None of this may be applicable to your Bezz though as my little beauty seems to be more like the forerunner of the current BZ-40 than the BZ-35. Main thing is, just take it slowly and only make a single change at a time; expose the machine to normal use for a while, while recording the important parameters, and then decide if thats how you want it to behave. Not really rocket science. Im sure youll get a lot of fun out of the rebuild process though mate, followed by awesome coffee when the jobs complete 8-).

            Dont forget to keep us in the loop during the rebuild process, with lots of photos, of course.... ;D

            Cheers mate,
            Mal.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

              Hi John,

              Congratulation BZ35 with a gauge, It this machine plum-in model or tank model.

              Any way the thing to look at in this machine when you are dong the general service are:

              Steam/water tap ( change tap seals or re-grease)
              Group head seal and shower
              Level probe regulator (They are on the top of the boiler)
              Clean re stricter from the fill solenoid
              Clean re stricter from the group solenoid
              Adjust boiler pressure (Pressure switch)
              Adjust pump pressure (OPV)
              Check your safety/anti-vacum valve is working and not leaking pressure.
              Clean the HX tube
              Clean your group head solenoid

              Any particular question in regard the programing you are welcome to pm or send me and email to: renzo@dibartoli.com.au

              Good luck

              Renzo

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                Originally posted by 476A6E626F030 link=1234695363/5#5 date=1234778929

                After giving the Bezz a really good clean, inside and out, I put it back together briefly to make sure everything was working properly before stripping down again to allow me to restore her back to as new condition as I can do.

                Anyway, part of the recondition work was to rebuild the Sirai p/stat with new innards, seals, etc and a good clean. After firing the (young)girl back up again, I reset the p/stat to maintain a Boiler Pressure of 0.9Bar from a high of 1.5Bar originally. Ive also installed a slightly smaller gicleur in the Group too and combined with the above Boiler Pressure, cooling flushes are quite manageable at less than 50ml after the machine has been sitting idle for an extended period. Shot to shot stability is also pretty good at 93-94C with a run of half-a-dozen shots in a row (thats about the most I would ever do with normal use).

                None of this may be applicable to your Bezz though as my little beauty seems to be more like the forerunner of the current BZ-40 than the BZ-35. Main thing is, just take it slowly and only make a single change at a time; expose the machine to normal use for a while, while recording the important parameters, and then decide if thats how you want it to behave. Not really rocket science. Im sure youll get a lot of fun out of the rebuild process though mate, followed by awesome coffee when the jobs complete 8-).

                Dont forget to keep us in the loop during the rebuild process, with lots of photos, of course.... ;D

                Cheers mate,
                Mal.
                I have just spoken to the seller. The machine sports a procon rotary pump but does not have a Sirai. He told me that the pressurestat is the same as they use on Iberital Single group machines (I would guess Mater or Cemme). Not great but I believe it might be possible to replace it. If I remember correctly the smaller pressurestats work with solid relay. I might be wrong though.

                One thing I would like to know is whether you plumbed it in or did you take the water container route? Procon are quite capable pumps and they should be fine sucking in water from a tank wihtout having to plumb it in. Of course one loses the opportunity to refill the boiler from the mains pressure but the plumbing is not high on my agenda at the moment. Later it could happen.

                Of course I will post pictures. It is just this itching feeling having to wait until Saturday, Bristol is 200 miles away from where i live. Four more days to go. I think you know the feeling

                Cheers,
                John

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                  Originally posted by 0924120F2C3F392221244D0 link=1234695363/6#6 date=1234828489
                  Hi John,

                  Congratulation BZ35 with a gauge, It this machine plum-in model or tank model.

                  Any way the thing to look at in this machine when you are dong the general service are:

                  Steam/water tap ( change tap seals or re-grease)
                  Group head seal and shower
                  Level probe regulator (They are on the top of the boiler)
                  Clean re stricter from the fill solenoid
                  Clean re stricter from the group solenoid
                  Adjust boiler pressure (Pressure switch)
                  Adjust pump pressure  (OPV)
                  Check your safety/anti-vacum valve is working and not leaking pressure.
                  Clean the HX tube
                  Clean your group head solenoid

                  Any particular question in regard the programing you are welcome to pm or send me and email to: renzo@dibartoli.com.au

                  Good luck

                  Renzo
                  Hi Renzo,

                  Thanks for the heads up! I will follow as soon as I get it on Saturday.

                  It is plumbed in version with proon rotary but no Sirai. I will post some pics.

                  Cheers,
                  John

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                    Quote:
                    One thing I would like to know is whether you plumbed it in or did you take the water container route? Procon are quite capable pumps and they should be fine sucking in water from a tank without having to plumb it in. Of course one loses the opportunity to refill the boiler from the mains pressure but the plumbing is not high on my agenda at the moment. Later it could happen.

                    Yes, you can use a water tank, the best way I found is to get a water tank with a tap with none return valve, in this way will be less possibility that you get air bubbles on the water line.

                    Send us some pictures

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                      Originally posted by 7E5B5C5A6B6D5B474755465D555A340 link=1234695363/7#7 date=1234829916
                      One thing I would like to know is whether you plumbed it in or did you take the water container route? Procon are quite capable pumps and they should be fine sucking in water from a tank wihtout having to plumb it in. Of course one loses the opportunity to refill the boiler from the mains pressure but the plumbing is not high on my agenda at the moment. Later it could happen.
                      I intend to plumb it in eventually but have only used filtered bottled water at this stage. Yep, Procons are great little pumps alright...

                      Mal.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                        Do you have a non-return valve installed? I was looking for one and found this:
                        mod edit- link to eBay item removed in line with site sales and posting policy

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                          Originally posted by 290C0B0D3C3A0C101002110A020D630 link=1234695363/11#11 date=1234942123
                          Do you have a non-return valve installed? I was looking for one and found this:
                          Yep, on the intake side of the pump about 300mm upstream...

                          Mal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                            Thanks,

                            Sorry for breaking the rules. I did not think it would be a breach as it was in the UK, but point taken.

                            Cheers,
                            John

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Bezzera BZ35e a newby question

                              hi -

                              John and I are in a very similar position - in the UK, working on a BZ35e, finding that most of the info on these machines is in the other hemisphere!

                              Ive been in touch with him already, and wished him all the best doing up his machine.

                              Im at the stage of a proper descale with mine - all the piping, and boiler, are out of the machine now, and anything that can take it is in citric acid.

                              I have the wiring diagram, and the plans - thanks to forum posters, again. And Ive been pretty meticulous in taking note on how to reconnect the wires when Im done.


                              Today when taking the boiler out, though, I disconnected the 4 wires (2 blue, 2 black, 3 in white housings, one in black) which attach to the small electrical component which hangs under the boiler.

                              (Can anyone enlighten me as to what this is? )

                              Anyway, I made a note of which wire went where - front left, front right, back left, back right...

                              But on removing the boiler, I found the small electrical (switch?) component had rotated. Maybe by ~0 degrees, or 180 degrees, or 360 degrees!


                              So, can anyone tell me which way round this component goes, relative to the wires? Ie which wire connects to which terminal...

                              If it helps - the unit has 4 terminals in a square, labelled:

                              P1 1
                              P2 2

                              And between P1 and 1 theres a diagram of a switch, open at the P1 end.
                              Between P2 and 2 theres the same diagram, but flipped round, ie open at the 2 end!


                              Any help would be much appreciated! Thanks!


                              Comment

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