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  • #16
    Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

    Originally posted by 555B5256545F554E435F52555256545F370 link=1240742933/14#14 date=1241518673
    Im a newbie so forgive my ignorance. I am looking to upgrade from my Gaggia Classic and have been researching the Isomac Tea, Millenium Due, Expobar Minore3, Giotto Rocket and VBMs as well as grinders such as Best Grinder and Mazzers. What has struck me is the considerable price tag for these grinders. These can cost half as much as the coffee machine. Considering all the copper, brass and stainless steel in the espresso machines I feel we are being got at with the prices for the grinders. Any thoughts?
    Hi bleach and welcome....

    With grinders, its easy...You gets what you pays for...

    Its the speed and precision of the bits that you dont see that deliver the results in your cup...

    $10 plunger and $700+ grinder = brilliant cup...
    $50 grinder and $5000 machine = garbage coffee...

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

      Originally posted by 75404D4A7E624E47474444210 link=1240742933/15#15 date=1241520732
      Originally posted by 555B5256545F554E435F52555256545F370 link=1240742933/14#14 date=1241518673
      Im a newbie so forgive my ignorance. I am looking to upgrade from my Gaggia Classic and have been researching the Isomac Tea, Millenium Due, Expobar Minore3, Giotto Rocket and VBMs as well as grinders such as Best Grinder and Mazzers. What has struck me is the considerable price tag for these grinders. These can cost half as much as the coffee machine. Considering all the copper, brass and stainless steel in the espresso machines I feel we are being got at with the prices for the grinders. Any thoughts?
      Hi bleach and welcome....

      With grinders, its easy...You gets what you pays for...

      Its the speed and precision of the bits, that you dont see; that deliver the results in your cup...

      $10 plunger and $700+ grinder = brilliant cup...

      $50 grinder and $5000 machine = garbage coffee...
      Well put...

      Only other issue is Beans and User but their negated as common in both you workings..


      Comment


      • #18
        Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

        Originally posted by 212F2622202B213A372B26212622202B430 link=1240742933/14#14 date=1241518673
        I feel we are being got at with the prices for the grinders. Any thoughts?
        I own several grinders.
        The cheapest cost $150.
        The most expensive $700+.

        Theres a BIG difference in quality of output.

        I now only use the cheap one when travelling as its small and light.
        That and my Aeropress can make me a reasonable coffee when theres nothing better around. But I prefer the coffee made with my better grinder.

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        • #19
          Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

          I have 4 grinders.

          The cheapest is a Gaggia MM and the grind quality is very poor (loads of dust) and it is noisy and unpleasant to use (so I dont).

          The other 3 range from $250-$700 in price and all have comparable grind quality but things like speed, noise, adjustability, build quality etc vary. I have compared them directly vs Mazzer Mini, Super Jolly and Major and Rancilio  Rocky and MD50 and Bezzera BB004 and could not taste a difference with any of these grinders (the Rancilio grinders had their burrs teflon taped which seemed to sweeten the taste a bit).

          I would class the $180 Sunbeam EM0480/EM0450 grinder to be as good in terms of grind quality as any of mine (from usage of a couple of friends) and it is easily the best option for a grinder on a budget. Up from there, you are getting superior build quality, adjustability, possibly usabilty (highly personal judgement) and style factor but the grind quality does not vary hugely unless you get something like a Mazzer Robur, IME.

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          • #20
            Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

            Originally posted by 525C5551535852494458555255515358300 link=1240742933/14#14 date=1241518673
            Im a newbie so forgive my ignorance. I am looking to upgrade from my Gaggia Classic and have been researching the Isomac Tea, Millenium Due, Expobar Minore3, Giotto Rocket and VBMs as well as grinders such as Best Grinder and Mazzers. What has struck me is the considerable price tag for these grinders. These can cost half as much as the coffee machine. Considering all the copper, brass and stainless steel in the espresso machines I feel we are being got at with the prices for the grinders. Any thoughts?  
            Welcome bleachbythebeach..... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

            As per all of the above and add the Diadema range of espresso machines to your wish list. These are top quality units from every perspective and worthy to be on the list.... 8-)

            Cheers,
            Mal.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

              Originally posted by 747A7377757E746F627E73747377757E160 link=1240742933/14#14 date=1241518673
              I feel we are being got at with the prices for the grinders. Any thoughts?
              I just bought a vacuum cleaner this afternoon that made a good grinder look cheap.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                Just wanted to chime in about the Diadema Junior...

                Ive had my Junior Semi-Auto for a bit over a week and would definitely recommend it as a great machine in your price range (if you buy it from Atillio/Cosmorex during the moving sale). Makes great espresso and has great steaming capabilities.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                  Originally posted by 6944404C412D0 link=1240742933/19#19 date=1241595169
                  As per all of the above and add the Diadema range of espresso machines to your wish list. These are top quality units from every perspective and worthy to be on the list....
                  Thanks Mal and thanks to all the welcomes and advice to this newbie. I will add the Diademas to my check out list. By the way does anyone have any idea why Isomac would name a coffee machine Tea?
                  Cheers
                  bleachbythebeach

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                    Tea is a girls name in italy. Not quite as bad as Mitsubishi naming a 4wd "pajero", and then marketing it in Spain I suppose....

                    http://dictionary.reverso.net/spanish-english/pajero

                    ;D ;D ;D

                    Oh and an update - someone somewhere has a box with a HX machine inside it, addressed to me - and although i could get all machines on my initial list below $2k, I somehow have parted with a few hundred more for an upper range machine, just so i never come on coffeesnobs, and think, I wish Id .........

                    Grinder choices still an issue though.........

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                      Originally posted by 372F26352A2625283E470 link=1240742933/23#23 date=1241680243
                      Tea is a girls name in italy.
                      Good thing....I was getting worried that they were making very expensive boiling water dispensers for filling teapots :P ;D

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                        Originally posted by 702F37212A212D242427272F232C420 link=1240742933/24#24 date=1241680863
                        Originally posted by 372F26352A2625283E470 link=1240742933/23#23 date=1241680243
                        Tea is a girls name in italy.  
                        Good thing....I was getting worried that they were making very expensive boiling water dispensers for filling teapots  :P ;D
                        Nah - she does have a hot temper though. ;D

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                          Thanks for all the suggestions!

                          James there are now 3 stockists of Isomac in Perth that Im aware of - 2 good, one..not.

                          The first 2 supply beans to some fabulous cafes, such as epic, velvet, ristretto, west end deli, tiger tiger and the other one mainly sells fully-auto machines.

                          Were going to go have a play with some isomac machines at the academy and well see how we go were pretty definite about the mazzer mini at this stage (husband wants the electronic, i think the manual will do the job) but could be persuaded otherwise.

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                          • #28
                            Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                            Just want to say thanks for the discussion.  Its been helpful.  We are also at the stage of making a decision about machine and grinder within the range discussed - and we live in Perth, so similar factors to RachelG and James.

                            This is a fair step up from our current setup, a basic discount store grade machine and coffee (fresh ground) from a good local supplier.  I also work close to one of the better coffee places in Perth so at least Ive still had the benefit of great coffee .

                            Ive been doing a lot of reading and comparisons based on discussions, reviews etc. CoffeeSnobs has been great for this.

                            Kev

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                              Hi all,

                              I would definitely not consider myself an expert, but I can say that I am extremely happy with my BZ07P. Like Chris mentioned, the electrically heated head heats up in 15 mins. If left there, it does run hot, but nothing a cooling flush cant fix. The key to this guy is not to overfill the basket - youll get water leaking all over the place if you do. But once you get it right, you get beautiful espresso - like I said, Im not expert, but I dont believe it compromises the quality of the espresso at all.

                              If you drink mostly milky coffees like me, I can certainly vouch for the 4-hole steam wand - its a beautiful monster! Steams your milk in less than 10 seconds, and once youve practiced enough, makes beautiful, silky smooth microfoam. I have to say cost me quite a few dollars in milk and lots of frustration at first, but now its worth every cent and every piece of hair I ripped out.

                              As for external finish - I just absolutely love the way it looks. Anyway, I have not used any of the other ones so maybe my opinion does not count. Still, love it to bits.

                              I got mine from Chris at Talk Coffee. Extremely informative, patient and very helpful - I know I am a difficult customer :-[, so he did well.

                              gavin.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: &lt;$2000 HX - Tea, Splendor, Expobar leva,BZ07 - decision time is here!

                                Originally posted by 646F51696762630E0 link=1240742933/12#12 date=1241442913
                                I think you need a good 1.5 hrs+ before you get up to get the machine up to temp.
                                Wow! Thats a long time for warm up! Ive found with the Reale that the boiler is up to temp and pressure in 5 mins (how long does 1.5 litres of water take to boil anyway? ;D) and that left on its own, the group is too hot to touch 10 mins later, or 2 mins later with 2-3 flushes through the group. Forgive my ignorance, but I imagine that the group temp should be around the ideal 90 degree extraction temperature?
                                Ive found that I can have a great session from cold machine to boiler purge and machine off in 20 mins - just wondering what the effect of the extra hour or so for warm up will have?

                                Anyone feel to chip in - just interested!

                                Cheers!
                                DBC

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