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  • a death in the family?

    I have a la Pavoni P/tre 2 group semi auto
    See here:

    It is plumbed into a 12 lire resovoir. I was away for a few days and, well the leader of the opposition, bless her heart, let the resovoir ran dry- allowing the pump to suck air.
    The bolier still had plenty of water and did not run dry- just the resovoir (or watr supply) ran dry.
    Since then, she (the machine that is!!) hasnt been well.
    Initially one group head operated as normal, and the other stayed cool to the touch. A day later, the same happened but with the opposite group heads (ie the previously cool GH heated, & the previous hot did not). Now both group heads are staying cool.

    The boiler is working as normal, I have the usual steam and water temp. The pipes coming from the boiler to the group heads are hot, the pipes running from the group heads down under and behind the boiler are not. Everything seems fine except there is no heat transfer from the bolier to the group heads them selves.

    On inspection I did notice a very slight leak (accompanied by a hissing tick sound) from the 2 bottom nuts of the boiler, one of which has developed quite a bit of corrosion.

    See here:

    As you can see, shes seen better days, but Im very attached to her and would rather not part with the bucks needed for a replacement.

    Can anyone shed any light on what the problem maybe and whether its worth fixing?

  • #2
    Re: a death in the family?

    Originally posted by 000C0505060601110602170B630 link=1241508627/0#0 date=1241508627
    I have a la Pavoni P/tre 2 group semi auto


    It is plumbed into a 12 lire resovoir. I was away for a few days and, well the leader of the opposition, bless her heart, let the resovoir ran dry- allowing the pump to suck air.
    The bolier still had plenty of water and did not run dry- just the resovoir (or watr supply) ran dry.
    Since then, she (the machine that is!!) hasnt been well.
    Initially one group head operated as normal, and the other stayed cool to the touch. A day later, the same happened but with the opposite group heads (ie the previously cool GH heated, & the previous hot did not). Now both group heads are staying cool.

    The boiler is working as normal, I have the usual steam and water temp. The pipes coming from the boiler to the group heads are hot, the pipes running from the group heads down under and behind the boiler are not. Everything seems fine except there is no heat transfer from the bolier to the group heads them selves.

    On inspection I did notice a very slight leak (accompanied by a hissing tick sound) from the 2 bottom nuts of the boiler, one of which has developed quite a bit of corrosion.

    See here:

    As you can see, shes seen better days, but Im very attached to her and would rather not part with the bucks needed for a replacement.

    Can anyone shed any light on what the problem maybe and whether its worth fixing?
    See here:

    Oh how I feel for ya..

    I would be contacting any number of the sponsors..  I am sure that even if they are not the Agent, there will be a Service Teck  who should be able to inspect / repair at a cost of less than a new one..

    One may say time to upgrade... BUT if your happy and the repair is such that you will get years more of use... Then it is not an over captilsation..  

    It is supporting a loved one, one who is part of the family.

    Fingers crossed for you and her...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: a death in the family?

      Originally posted by 1D323B392E113D323D3B39313932285C0 link=1241508627/1#1 date=1241509887
      I would be contacting any number of the sponsors..I am sure that even if they are not the Agent, there will be a Service Teckwho should be able to inspect / repair at a cost of less than a new one..
      Thanks AM, my usual tech - who travels to me - really has had a death in the family, so is unable to come and offer a diagnosis/perform surgery/administer last rights until a few days or so...waiting...waiting...plunging!

      Originally posted by 1D323B392E113D323D3B39313932285C0 link=1241508627/1#1 date=1241509887
      One may say time to upgrade... BUT if your happy and the repair is such that you will get years more of use... Then it is not an over captilsation..  
      As you know, that may well be on the cards, if I can patch this old girl up without it being "false ecconomy" I will do, but if not...

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: a death in the family?

        Hi Coffeebreath - Id suspect that the pump hasnt re-primed correctly , and the heat exchangers have run dry, leading to no thermosyphon heating in both groupheads. The leaking cold line from the boiler may well leak profusely if the pump is re-primed , so its time for a few new copper lines to be made up ,and a bit of descaling for the boiler.Ive just done "Grandma Betsy" ( the great grandmother of the modern Bezerra Bz99/09/40/35 machines) and she should run happily for 20 years till the next major service.
        Plumbing fittings for these are available from at least one of our sponsors ,and apart from being REALLY carefull when unscrewing boiler fittings (and keeping notes !!) refurbishing a machine is great fun and very satisfying.
        regards, pip.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: a death in the family?

          Not familiar with this problem
          However Pip s suggestion seems most plausible
          Originally posted by 627B62120 link=1241508627/3#3 date=1241528696
          Id suspect that the pump hasnt re-primed correctly , and the heat exchangers have run dry
          KK

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: a death in the family?

            Originally posted by 5A435A2A0 link=1241508627/3#3 date=1241528696
            she should run happily for 20 years till the next major service.
            ...more than you can say about me!!

            Originally posted by 5A435A2A0 link=1241508627/3#3 date=1241528696
            its time for a few new copper lines to be made up ,and a bit of descaling for the boiler
            ...its well and truly overdue, but well worth it. Shes very dear to me.

            Originally posted by 5A435A2A0 link=1241508627/3#3 date=1241528696
            Hi Coffeebreath - Id suspect that the pump hasnt re-primed correctly , and the heat exchangers have run dry, leading to no thermosyphon heating in both groupheads.  
            Thanks Pip and KK.
            How do I reprime the pump?
            If its a relatively silmple task then Im propably up to it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: a death in the family?

              ...answering my own post here.
              I re-primed the pump by running water through the group heads and running both the hot water nozzle and steam wand until the pump kicked in.
              I assume this re-priming..?
              Continued this for a while so the pump had to work a bit.
              Now... both groups heads are heating, however the left GH is only heating to approx 1/2 the temp it should reach, and the right GH is heating as it should...
              So Im 1/2 way there, but thinking I may have damaged the left HX itself?
              Any Ideas?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: a death in the family?

                Gday cb....

                Could be some dislodged Scale partially blocking a port on that Group Id reckon. Maybe that service is due now, rather than later....

                Mal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: a death in the family?

                  Originally posted by 002D292528440 link=1241508627/7#7 date=1241595496
                  Could be some dislodged Scale partially blocking a port on that Group Id reckon.  
                  I hadnt thought of that Mal, thanks. My tech skills are embarrasingly poor...

                  Originally posted by 002D292528440 link=1241508627/7#7 date=1241595496
                  Maybe that service is due now, rather than later....  
                  ...well overdue well before this happened I would say. Its booked in for early next week!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: a death in the family?

                    Hi Coffeebreath,
                                           as Mal says , dislodged scale is a real possibility.The Bezerra (that just produced a great double Nicaraguan HG shot - Im going back for another shortly)  had enough scale to fail to heat up properly after an hour - its ready in 30 minutes now after a bath in CLR , then Andys "edible acid" then a bath in bicarb soda and then a good rinse.The whole machine has probably had 30 dummy shots through it to run all of the air out of it - and a serviced rotary pump too.
                    Kaffee-netz.de had a pictorial strip down of a  la Pavoni P/Tre , and the boiler looked ....."grotty" before a clean.
                    Keep an eye on the leak at the boiler connection - theres ~9 bar of water pressure there , and free electrons waiting to be liberated from the mains power to the boiler element !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: a death in the family?

                      Originally posted by 667F66160 link=1241508627/9#9 date=1241600394
                      Keep an eye on the leak at the boiler connection
                      Yeah, will do Pip, - major service is booked in for next week, and that is one of things on the list.
                      Thanks for your help.
                      Cheers, Anthony

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: a death in the family?

                        Hi Coffeebreath,

                        I am sorry to hear about your problem and hope that the service man will sort it out in no time (OK, next week.

                        If you like that type of challenges refurbishing your own machine is great fun. As Mal said it is most likely something blocking the water path. These things could get some limescale moving around after the accident with the pump.

                        You are lucky the pump did not get busted. These are expensive things. I am also using a 10 litre reservoir that feeds the pump. I am considering to make a device that would give me either light or sound signal when the level is near the critical one. You might consider something like that so in the future even "the opposition leader" could not make the same mistake.

                        Good luck!

                        Just my 2 p.

                        Cheers,
                        John

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: a death in the family?

                          Originally posted by 5075727445437569697B68737B741A0 link=1241508627/11#11 date=1241814184
                          If you like that type of challenges refurbishing your own machine is great fun.
                          ...its not that I dont like the idea of the challenge, it is more the fact that some people look at the innards of an espresso machine and see a system of electronics and plumbing that makes sense and other people look at the same machine and see a big mess of pipes, wires and... stuff. I, sadly, am the latter. It sounds like you are the former and Im jealous.

                          ...and from the UK...here I was thinking you all drank Tea because the coffee you made was undrinkable!!
                          Im glad to hear thats not true, and thanks for the help.
                          Anthony

                          Comment

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