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The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

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  • The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

    It’s an epiphany… what a difference a cooling flush makes! I’m hitting the “god shot” almost on a regular basis and it’s more by accident than design.

    I’m a newbie HX machine owner (Diadem Junior Plus) and had read article like this http://www.home-barista.com/hx-love.html but it didn’t really sink in until the last few weeks… when it was all about grind, dose, tamp. Not Flush?

    I’m wondering if it’s peculiar to my machine (which constantly sits on close to 1.2 bar). Does the boiler pressurestat need to wound down a notch?

    Any way, I find that while I’m dosing I’ll start the flush which usually goes for about 20 to 25 seconds, stop the machine, polish off the tamp, then load, and then start the extraction.

    Does anyone else have a similar ritual – or something completely different? I would be really interested in hearing about it.

    Merr1

  • #2
    Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

    This is very normal. Every(?) HX requires a cooling flush - especially after the machine has been on for a while.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

      Originally posted by 64617269757368000 link=1255257134/1#1 date=1255261617
      Every(?) HX requires a cooling flush
      Mine doesnt any more since it had its last service by Di Bartoli.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

        I think it depends on settings. A big commercial will require it if left sitting for more than it would in a busy coffees shop at peak time even with the pressurestat down a little. I have pre-programmed 2 of the 4 buttons on each groups pad for different cooling shots. However back to back shots do not require a flush with my set up.

        Cheers

        PS. By having the same flush volume each time when the machine has been idle for a while you easily achieve very good consistency

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

          My Junior EXTRA was requiring quite a long cooling flush with the pressure running at 1.3-1.4 bar.

          Since I rarely make more than 2 shots at once I dialled the pressure down to 1.05 bar and now I only need to flush enough to warm the espresso cup (about 60 ml) if it has been idling for a while.

          My previous Junior was set so the maximum pressure was just under .9 bar and didnt need flushing at all--if anything it needed a warming flush!

          Greg

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

            I have Giotto PP - do i need cooling flush??

            argon

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            • #7
              Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

              "I have Giotto PP - do i need cooling flush??"

              If you get "flashing", hissing and boiling as seen on this
              video

              http://www.home-barista.com/tips/when-is-end-of-hx-water-dance-t12068.html

              then yes.

              I reviewed what I was doing a few days ago, and found that
              I was actually flushing a bit too long, which wasnt helping
              the shots.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                Originally posted by 695C4B4979415C434F424A2E0 link=1255257134/4#4 date=1255298822
                My Junior EXTRA was requiring quite a long cooling flush with the pressure running at 1.3-1.4 bar.
                Hi Greg,

                Bizarre that your machine was running at 1.3bar? Should be more like 1.1 bar and you should only require a rinse. Might be worth getting it checked to ensure that thermosyphon restrictors are in place.

                Thermosyphon restriction and Scace calibration can make most HX machines run beautifully- except the ones with poorly designed HX systems.

                Chris

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                  Thanks Chris--adjusting it has made all the difference. It works beautifully at just a tad over 1.05 bar, and the flush is just enough to heat an espresso cup, and only after idling for an hour or so.

                  I too was surprised that two machines, only a few serial numbers apart could be so differently adjusted--one very cool, the other hot. I guess its all in the set-up.

                  Greg

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                    Hmmm....

                    My DJE runs beautifully at a nominal setpoint of 1.0Bar (On at 0.95Bar, Off at 1.05Bar). barely any cooling flush needed at all, even if sitting idle for an hour or more. Originally, the p/stat was operating between 1.0 and 1.1Bar but seemed to settle down after a time to the above setting and thats where it has stayed ever since.

                    Probably the most Ive ever needed to flush would be 60ml at worst but since the p/stat settled a bit, probably a 30ml flush is all thats needed to pull it into line. Steam quantity and quality has remained excellent....

                    Mal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                      Interesting discussion.

                      My personal feeling is too much cods wollop is said about cooling flushes in general. Of course that is only my opinion.....

                      The danger with cooling a machine down to a point where it doesnt need one (cooling flush) at all even after it has been left standing indefinitely, is it may well mean the machine has been over cooled and will underextract coffee under normal conditions of use.

                      And of course conversely, a really long cooling flush means the machine is probably running too hot.... (and probaly set up for the Italian market withiout regard for other markets to where they are exported).

                      Meaning, a happy medium (in my opinion) for home use (which is little use for  machines that are designed to operate continuously ie, not being used for the purpose originally intended/designed) is where you may have a small cooling flush that dissipates easily and pretty much as Mal above has stated!

                      The mass of the group (on E61 machines) is kind of like a radiator in reverse....it is there to make sure the brewing water does not cool off too much on its travels from the heat exchanger to the grinds in the coffee filter, so it is there to stop the possibility of under extraction in continuous use. If you cool it too much so as not to have to do a cooling flush at all, it may not keep the right amount of heat up to the brew water or may even cool it down....

                      As others have said in a round about way, its all in the total package of the particular machine, and any Diadema machines imported by my company are set up extremely well in fact dare I say it, I have been tweaking and doing signature specs for many years and actually taught others that now follow......

                      A machine that has been set up well (internally) from the beginning, will likely repond to changes in the running pressure (via the pressurestat), affecting cooling flush and brew temperature. Machines that are running way too hot or way too cool (ie not set up well enough internally on the production line), will not respond to changes made at the pressurestat. The pressurestat in the end only allows for minor adjustments in the above.

                      Notwithstanding any of the above there are plenty of brands and models that have been imported into the country over the years that are incorrigible / recalcitrant coffee burners (run far too hot) and no amount of pressurestat tweaking will do anything...but they are not the subject of this discussion.

                      I am not into giving away my hard earned expertise and therefore am not willing to discuss internal set up any  further.  

                      The best advice I think....is to stop thinking & reading too much and enjoy your machines! That means you need to learn the management strategy for how to get the best out of it. In many instances, you can learn that from your retailer.

                      Regardz,
                      Attilio
                      very first CS site sponsor.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                        My GPP sits at pretty much dead on 1.1 bar.

                        Like your machine Mal, mine barely requires any cooling flush at all. In fact I generally dont bother. If I need to warm glasses, I use the hot water tap. Steady as a rock.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                          Originally posted by 7D495E48536478545D5D5E5E3B0 link=1255257134/10#10 date=1255387656
                          The best advice I think....is to stop thinking & reading too much and enjoy your machines! That means you need to learn the management strategy for how to get the best out of it. In many instances, you can learn that from your retailer.
                          Well said Attilio.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

                          After all, that is why we all bought machines of this calibre, to enjoy them and what they produce. Love my "Extra".... 8-)

                          Mal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                            Originally posted by 032E2A262B470 link=1255257134/12#12 date=1255421648
                            Originally posted by 7D495E48536478545D5D5E5E3B0 link=1255257134/10#10 date=1255387656
                            The best advice I think....is to stop thinking & reading too much and enjoy your machines! That means you need to learn the management strategy for how to get the best out of it. In many instances, you can learn that from your retailer.
                            Well said Attilio.... [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

                            After all, that is why we all bought machines of this calibre, to enjoy them and what they produce. Love my "Extra".... 8-)

                            Mal.
                            The retailer... Choice of words... Sponsor / Retailer is more correct

                            Most of the plain retailers cause more issues...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: The Benefits of a Cooling Flush - Diadema Junior Plus

                              Originally posted by 4E5B52424E5555210 link=1255257134/3#3 date=1255296536
                              PS.By having the same flush volume each time when the machine has been idle for a while you easily achieve very good consistency
                              Good point... Im steadily incorporating this into my routine.

                              Thanks

                              Comment

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