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  • Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

    Hi Everyone,

    I dont believe there are many people modifying their HX machines - I thought I would start some discussions on the topic. See what everyone has done and any suggestions.

    Here are my current modifications of my Giotto. The list so far is:
    - Heat wrapped boiler
    - PID and pressure control selectable via toggle switch (both SSR)
    - Better on/off switch, re-setable fuse & bigger feet
    - Heat deflector between boiler & electrics
    - X-cap on element & ceramic cap filter on electrics

    Usual stuff:
    - Restricted flow through head
    - Modified drip tray
    - Plumbed into 1/4" push-in fittings

    What else have people done?


  • #2
    Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

    hmmmmmmm furry boiler 8-)

    Just the 1/4 pipe on a tap for me, with the inline scale filter, and plans to plumb in a drip tray drain.

    Could someone please explain the benefits of a PID in a HX? i get the dual purpose PID (had one) or sole purpose in a dual boiler, but HX?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

      what sully said about PID

      where are you getting the reading from for the pid? I assume on the HX line but where?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

        No you would put the PID on/in the main boiler.
        Advantages:
        - No dead band (well minute)
        - No moving parts to break down
        - Able to tweak the temp/pressure of the main boiler which will affect the temp of the HX
        - Geekiness

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

          Good points.

          The pickup is at the bottom of the tank line, so the sensor is covered by water all the time.

          The pressure and temp do not align (they do in your physics book - but not inside the HX boiler) so I can control using either to fine tune the water temp.

          Definitely no dead band off the PID, but the ramp up settings on the PID still need work. Oh and definitely geeky! Although I am still missing an easily variable pressure regulator.

          Also, the coolness is SSR control with nice x-caps... again only for those geeks. LOL

          I would still like a variable flow control to the head - but a 1/4" ball valve in High temp SS is >$50.00 plus fitting - still need to work on that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

            Ha this thread amuses me, just when i thought it was safe to stop thinking about PIDs ;D..........you start this thread!

            ha ha, ill be sticking stock for a while yet, love my GPP!

            cheers
            warren

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

              Any chance of a pic of your modified drip tray please?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                Originally posted by 14372E3D21580 link=1257849256/6#6 date=1257928128
                Any chance of a pic of your modified drip tray please?
                X 2, i was thinking of getting some stainless bent to replace the entire existing floor of the drip tray, so that it all runs down a 1 inch drain in the middle and out through a pipe that feeds out behind the machine, down behind teh bench and into a 20 lt bucket. kinda like this(warning crappy ms paint sketch ahead

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                  appreciate the warning ;D

                  also interested in drip tray mod

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                    Ha ha how bad is it! The sketch was a thought as I finished the post, ya know when ya cant really describe what your talking about? I thought "its time to test the new windows 7 paint out!"........fail! ;D

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                      Originally posted by 6460465F5F5A45525D330 link=1257849256/9#9 date=1257939291
                      I thought "its time to test the new windows 7 paint out!"........fail! ;D
                      What are you talking about!? Thats an excellent drawing of a barnyard shed...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                        I can follow the drawing

                        A fitting is installed in the depression of the drip tray & a drain hose connected to remove the water

                        KK

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                          Re: Fitting a PID Controller to a HX machine....

                          Minimum benefit (if any) over a decent quality p/stat as it only allows fiddling with the Boiler Water Temperature setpoint, not the temperature of the Brew Water as it reaches the Group. This is determined by the design of the Heat Exchanger system and Thermodynamics of the inter-relationship between all the components of this hydraulic circuit. Fiddling with the Boiler Water Temp. on an ongoing basis has many cons and very few pros. This is further exacerbated when a machine incorporates an E-61 Group as part of its design since these Groups have been engineered to maintain a stable Brew Water Temperature in synch with the Thermosyphon Circuit and HX design.

                          If you have the urge to want to play around with variable Brew Water Temps, much better to save up for a Dual Boiler purpose built machine that is designed to do this, OR... buy a second hand Silvia or Lelit/Mokita/Fenice style of machine and fit a PID Controller to that. This will provide you with a practical alternative and facilitate much experimentation matching Brew Water Temp. to particular bean varietals and roast profiles.

                          Cheers,
                          Mal.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                            Originally posted by 01252C2C2F2F1501253927254A0 link=1257849256/11#11 date=1257941777
                            I can follow the drawing

                            A fitting is installed in the depression of the drip tray & a drain hose connected to remove the water

                            KK
                            you hit the nail on the head KK, wish i could of ;D (i missed and hit my thumb :-[)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Anyones Giotto & other HX Modifications

                              Craig from 9 Bar Espresso Services and I are playing around with a few modifications, which Ill post about when theyre done.

                              One that I have always wanted to try, but havent gotten around to, is removing the gicleur in the group, or replacing it with a much larger diameter one.

                              PID for boiler ... lots of pros, cons and questions. I guess that one is that the PID only stabilises temperature at the point of the probe, so the relationship between that point and the brew temperature would be an interesting one to check out. Id love to experiment with a scace device a little more, but I have the impression that a workable rule of thumb might be that +0.1 bar corresponds to +2C in brew temperature. It would be good to confirm it. That said, I also get the impression that most, if not all, e61 machines have a shot temperature rise of a degree or two across the first few back to back shots in a series, so thats an inherent limitation to be aware of. In any case, the pressurestat on the giotto premium plus at work strikes me as fairly unimpressive, so I think that replacing it with a better one or a PID wouldnt necessarily be a bad thing.

                              Has anyone tried having their pstat switch via a SSR?

                              Cheers,
                              Luca

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