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Jura S9 Steamed vs Frothed volumes

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  • Jura S9 Steamed vs Frothed volumes

    Hi, Im going to do the initial setup on two Jura S9s tomorrow. Ive read the manual cover to cover, and am puzzled with actual volume differences between "frothed" (oooh how I dislike that term and its implications) and "steamed" milk using the frothXpress attachment, as Jura use steaming time as the milk volume control, not volume! (next model could Jura please fix or provide approximations...)

    Can someone please do a quick test and PM me before about 11am tomorrow with the volume differences of what lands up in the cup including air? Otherwise a response here on the forum would be great and Ill see if it matches my experiments tomorrow arvo.

    Ill be attempting to calibrate all the settings whilst having two five year olds wildly exploring the office. Wish me luck.

  • #2
    Re: Jura S9 Impressa One Touch 2010 initial calibration review

    Five hours of user calibration and two machines later... pretty frustrated. I read up on the online manuals supplied by the supplier on their web-site last night, but theyre out of date for an older model - not the same as the picture of the machine on their website so had to learn on the fly with the printed manual (which was pretty good actually barring a few things it doesnt identify/explain).

    Its good to have two machines available as theyre showing idiosyncracies unique to each, including one with a definite milk temperature problem when using the frother supplied with the high-end model of 10 degrees cooler than the other machine. And when were talking 50*C on the hotter machine, 40*C just doesnt cut it at all. > And yes, being a CoffeeSnob, I had both a standard milk gauge and a thermocouple attached to a DMM to cross check.

    I rang the supplier and discovered that the max grammage is 14 per shot (not listed in the manual) no matter how much water is pushed through it. Jura need to pull this up to 21 to allow for reasonable coffee out of the machine, particularly as they just run more coffee through the same sized puck for "two coffees" and "large coffees" . I know its a super-auto. I dont have the same expectations as my Vibiemme. But I sure expected the shot variables to be far wider than a cheap Saeco in order to produce better coffee. I sure expected that when it says two coffees that it would use two pucks or at least have a higher grammage to allow for [i]some[i] improvement in coffee quality which is inherently worse in a super-auto than a manual machine.

    Using fresh beans (roasted by me so I knew exactly what was going on), the best shot volume was 25ml on the second-to-finest grind setting. This is the same type of setting I was using on a Saeco - again, I expected the grind to be able to go a lot finer (not anywhere near as fine as my Macap for sure, but probably about twice as fine as this setting), and therefore produce a better shot. The manual states that you can get 15ml - but the digital volumes dont allow you to get below 25ml with any button! :


    • #3
      Re: Jura S9 One Touch 2010 initial calibration review

      Ok, a bit of venting so far, but theres more to come before I get on to the good stuff.

      The "professional frother" attachment is nigh on useless. Worse than any Saeco panarello, and definitely worse than any Saeco auto frother system. The "latte" setting ended up as a very flat white, and the capp had a tiny bit of volume and came up to about what I expect for a bad super-auto latte. Oh, yes, this happened on both machines. Both units are brand new out of the box so technically neither should be blocked. Neither reached air volumes anywhere near the pictures on their website for the dishwasher foam style they were promoting. There are no instructions on how to increase volumisation.

      The good stuff:
      a) the rotary dial when youre setting the "product" specifications is magnificent. It operates as both a rotary dial as well as a push button, and all you have to do is find "exit" on each menu to return to the menu above. Very very easy to operate and is reasonably intuitive, especially when youre specifying multiple settings for eight one touch buttons. x 2 machines ;D

      b) yes, it looks good. The variable height brew spouts would be great if I could actually produce strong enough shots to warrant a mug. At present, I cant.

      c) the "one touch" button functions for caps and lattes is great (assuming the professional frother worked better).

      Getting back to the not-so-good features: it needs better control over the brew temperature. Its "high" setting is not high enough and produces sour coffees with some roasts. It also needs better control over the milk temperature when using the professional frother - 40-55*C is not good enough when Australian cafes are offering as a standard anywhere between 65-75*C. I would have expected a minimum top level of 65*C on this type of machine with an ability to push the boundary to 70*C, and with flexibility to get back to a 55*C level.

      Thus ends my first days experience with a Jura S9 One Touch.

      Ive roasted around 30 single origins to multiple degrees, operated a Vibiemme Domobar for over a year, and attended training both as a home user and under two world champions. Im a CoffeeSnob whos not happy with this product. And my husbands bought two on the basis of my recommendations (and the 95% of the CoffeeSnob suppliers who replied to my query).

      Ill update you with any improvements. ;D

      p.s. Im very happy with my Vibiemme thank you very much.


      • #4
        Re: Jura S9 Steamed vs Frothed volumes

        It sounds like a bit of a hard road.

        One of the sponsors may be able to help on the adjustment phase, but I was consistently able to get better coffee out of a DeLonghi than I can out a Jura, despite a price differential of thousands of dollars. This did require considerable tweaking of the controls, and I always manually steamed the milk, something few staff were fussy enough to do.

        Im glad you have good machine for you. Please remember that most peoples experience of good coffee is freeze-dried instant, with ease of production being much more important than taste.



        • #5
          Re: Jura S9 Steamed vs Frothed volumes

          Wow, what a great thread. Sounds like you have had a wonderful time getting to know the product.

          As a starting point I suggest reference to the Jura Product Specification which can be found online here

          This indicates that the brewing unit can and does brew from 5 grams up to 16 grams in one shot. To achieve the full 16 grams I believe that you need to use one of the double shot settings. My understanding is that this is one of the most variable brew unit ranges in the marketplace in a sub $3,000 machine.

          When I am adjusting the milk for the desired cup I add my milk first using the timer. Just set the time to bring the milk up to about 1cm below the cup. Of course, this setting will vary depending upon shape of cup. I then adjust the size of espresso shot to the cup to produce the desired presentation. I wrote an article on this in 2005 which you may find of interest.

          It has been a while since you first posted so rather than address many of your points which you may already have been overcome can you let me know (PM is fine) of any current issues.

          The first point of call should always be the original supplier. If you have purchased through the Jura distribution network you can access them directly. At any stage you can also contact Jura Australia directly and they will be able to assist you with your support path. For the record, the national number is 1300 552 883.

          It is also worthwhile pointing out that Gilkatho offers a 30 day money back guarantee in the event a customer is dissatisfied with their equipment purchased on our website. If you have purchased your product from us and wish to return the item, then please contact us on 1300 137 620.

          I will also PM you in case I can assist you further.



          • #6
            Re: Jura S9 Steamed vs Frothed volumes

            Thanks for the posts Greg & Wayne. Yes, we had several discussions with the supplier. The solutions below are a combination of his recommendation and our experiments.

            The milk temperature is better when the steam knob is placed just either side of the steam setting for the cap or latte versions and the temp increases by about 5-10*C.

            The professional frother should only be rinsed at the end of the day and allowed to dry thoroughly overnight before replacing on the machine - water from rinsing it (we were being hygienic and following the machines instructions) temporarily blocked an air intake resulting in flat white milk.

            The 16g espresso (yes youre correct Wayne, my supplier had it wrong) can be set up for the single-shot button (five coffee bean lights on the "aroma" setting), however if you press the double-shot button it just puts twice as much water through the same puck - not two sets. Ive taught the staff to just press the single shot button twice. The espresso/single shot volume with the 16g has been left at 25ml to get a good tasting coffee. Anything more and it turns bitter.

            The grind setting stays on the second lowest grind.

            Out of seven single origins and one blend tried through the machine in a day, only one tasted any good. A "special" blend by a local roaster who was kind enough to roast to order in a hurry. The machine needs a specific style of roast (which our supplier freely admitted they had discovered themselves after working with Juras for some time). Were about to begin the process of trialling roasts week by week.

            I am thankful that the office staff have now ceased going to GJs during office hours, so its apparently acceptable for the everyday consumer. Weve moved on to the "drinks" menu composition and graphic design. (Arent I glad.)

            Thanks for your input and support Wayne and Greg!


            • #7
              Re: Jura S9 Steamed vs Frothed volumes

              I am interested in buying an older Jura S9 and therefore most interested to read your posts. As I am now happily roasting with my new, marvellous, Behmor drum roaster I am a little concerned that you suggest a specific roast type is required to obtain good results from the Jura S9. Would you describe this roast type for me, please?