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Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

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  • #31
    Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

    Bombora have told me the Brita filter jug will do the trick (so long as the filter is replaced at proper intervals)

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    • #32
      Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

      Originally posted by 342F30272A7E77460 link=1269222156/30#30 date=1269314045
      Bombora have told me the Brita filter jug will do the trick (so long as the filter is replaced at proper intervals)
      :-? Thats not our observation- even with the most fastidious of owners- unless youre planning on replacing the cartridge every 10 litres...

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      • #33
        Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

        HI,

        this probably needs some context ...the Brita filter will mostly do what you need BUT the issue is it has a limited volume - the softening resin is only good for 5-6 litres based on average Melbourne water hardness...which isnt much - so after that, there is no protection from scale formation ....the expectation is that this filter would do more volume (which is why most people dont rate them)...but the litreage capacity on the filter refers to chemical reduction - not softening.....this makes replacement expensive if its scale protection you are after .....a bench top system with a 3 stage sediment, chemical and softening filter costs around $ 99 (and a filter change every 6 - 12 months of around $ 50 ( depending on usege and Hardness)...much more economical

        cheers

        Bernard

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        • #34
          Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

          Originally posted by 04313C3B0F133F36363535500 link=1269222156/21#21 date=1269301373
          I bought:[*]http://www.bomborasupplies.com.au/product.php?productid=169&cat=8718&page=1[*]http://www.bomborasupplies.com.au/product.php?productid=168&cat=8718&page=1[*]2 x 1/4-1/2" nipples, 30cm of braided and a joiner and I just hooked into the braided hose leading to my flick mix tap under the kitchen sink...It took 10 min and everything which comes out of the cold tap is fantastic for drinking and great for coffee as well. All up cost was well under $200  8-)

          Chris
          Does this set up require a pressure limiting valve? I am guessing any type of inline filter will.

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          • #35
            Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

            Originally posted by 3B3A30233D3822510 link=1269222156/33#33 date=1269323547
            Does this set up require a pressure limiting valve?  I am guessing any type of inline filter will.
            The filters are rated to 9 bar CJ and it would be rare to see this as mains pressure- unless you have a fire hydrant for a cold tap ;D

            A PLV is used to ensure your machine gets no more than 350kPa

            Cheers

            Chris

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            • #36
              Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

              Just tested my water:

              KH (Carbonate hardness):
              Tap water: 5 degrees (89.5ppm)
              Brita filtered tap water: 2 degrees (35.8ppm)

              GH (General Hardness):
              Tap water: 9 degrees (161.1ppm)
              Brita filtered tap water: 4 degrees (71.6ppm)

              Anyone able to interpret anything from this, go ahead

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              • #37
                Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                Originally posted by 794C4146726E424B4B48482D0 link=1269222156/34#34 date=1269327189
                The filters are rated to 9 bar CJ and it would be rare to see this as mains pressure- unless you have a fire hydrant for a cold tap  ;D

                A PLV is used to ensure your machine gets no more than 350kPa
                Cheers for that Chris. I dont have a plumbed in machine so wouldnt be connecting directly so no PLV reqd by sounds of it.

                I just checked all our plumbing and unfortunately it seems that all the taps are plumbed directly from the wall. Not sure how Im going to integrate a fliter system. May have to plump it outside and have a line coming in?

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                • #38
                  Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                  My system is the same as Chriss and performs exactly as stated.... Not a sign of scale in the DJE coming up to 12 months use.

                  I do have the PLV though as I intended plumbing my Bezzera in where the DJE now sits but its doing no harm where it is for now so it can stay where it is...

                  Mal.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                    Originally posted by 28332C3B36626B5A0 link=1269222156/35#35 date=1269334794
                    Anyone able to interpret anything from this, go ahead Smiley

                    It is the General Hardness (GH) you need to be looking at in this context.


                    soft <17 mg/L CaCO3

                    slightly hard 17-60 mg/L CaCO3

                    moderately hard 60-120 mg/L CaCO3

                    hard 120-180 mg/L CaCO3

                    very hard >180 mg/L CaCO3

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                    • #40
                      Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                      Originally posted by 33342F27203235410 link=1269222156/38#38 date=1269391417
                      Originally posted by 28332C3B36626B5A0 link=1269222156/35#35 date=1269334794
                      Anyone able to interpret anything from this, go ahead Smiley

                      It is the General Hardness (GH) you need to be looking at in this context.
                      Yes and same temp and volumes etc etc... Testing methods must ensure Apples with Apples

                      Then there is what happens at the operating temp..

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                      • #41
                        Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                        Originally posted by 7B607F68653138090 link=1269222156/35#35 date=1269334794
                        Just tested my water:
                        The real test for the Brita jug is to repeat your test over and over and document what happens to the levels. The jug will reduce hardness - the question, as stated above, for how long. It is the long run average cost and the PITA ratio that counts here.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                          I started this thread and now I am completely demoralized.

                          The journey of moving from 6910s to VBM HXs has been exciting up till now. My shots are great, my steaming is now good, my pouring has improved etc etc, in fact I enjoy making the coffees just as much as drinking them. I have a good backflush and cleaning routine but here I am thinking I could descale myself and this thread has convinced me otherwise but its got worse, I have to now spend more money and do some plumbing. I dont think this is spelled out loud enough when you buy a machine. Its like an anticlimax

                          Anyway whats the simplest, non plumbing method, of using acceptable (whatever that means) filtered water. Is it the jug but replacing cartridges regularly or is it this benchtop solution and does that make our newely renovated kitchen look ugly? I really couldnt be bothered with some permanent solution that requires a plumber or a skilled handyman.

                          The journey has stalled.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                            barri, where are you located?

                            I dont like to see people unhappy with the outcome of their purchase, whether its from me or someone else.

                            If you happen to be in Sydney, Id be happy to descale your machine for free, the next time its required, which is usually about every 12 months.

                            Youre also welcome to watch and learn so that you can do this yourself in future.

                            Cheers!

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                            • #44
                              Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                              Originally posted by 4F4C5F5F442D0 link=1269222156/41#41 date=1269399334
                              Anyway whats the simplest, non plumbing method, of using acceptable (whatever that means) filtered water. Is it the jug but replacing cartridges regularly or is it this benchtop solution and does that make our newely renovated kitchen look ugly? I really couldnt be bothered with some permanent solution that requires a plumber or a skilled handyman.

                              For me the easiest was the benchtop setup.  Fits on my aerator, theres a little switch to choose when to run water through the filter.  The unit isnt what Id call sexy, but its not too bad either.  Its probably 30-40cm tall and about as round as a cappuccino saucer.  Up front $99, and then $50 every six months or so.

                              I think there was also a slip over attachment for taps that dont have the aerator thread.  Im sure bombora could give you more info.  I stopped looking at what was in the box once I had it fitted.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Descaling a vibiemme junior (or senior)

                                Dont get put off Barri, have you done any tests on your water supply?Ive been using espresso machines for 5 years now with no filtration or softeners, maybe im just lucky with our well supply water.I did do a couple of de-scales and only ended up with green water from the copper pipes! Ive dis-assembled my machines to check the boilers and found nothing.
                                Im certainly not advocating everyone can get away with this, but it all comes down to your water supply.If its not that hard, you may not need complicated or expensive filtration systems.You can always check your mushroom in the e-61 grouphead periodically to see if there is any scale build-up.
                                Doing a de-scale is not rocket science, but you do need a good understanding of how your machine works.The reason most vendors advise against home users doing it is because of all the post we see on here like "i just de-scaled my machine and now theres no water flow" Its easy to stuff it up if you dont understand how a heat exchanger machine works.

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